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AA vs. Eagle vs. Chautauqua


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AA vs. Eagle vs. Chautauqua

Old 09-26-2009, 08:44 PM
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Default AA vs. Eagle vs. Chautauqua

Discussions with Management Concerning Chautauqua Flying

Last week’s hotline message outlined the MEC’s immediate response to the announcement of American’s intention to use Chautauqua to provide feed in Chicago. Please refer to the Eagle ALPA website EGL Pilots > Home to view this response in its entirety.

This week, your MEC officers met with senior management to discuss ALPA’s objections concerning this transfer of flying. In these discussions, we made it clear that your MEC believes that American Eagle’s contractual duty to “aggressively seek to increase flying opportunities” and to bid on “opportunities to provide additional feed to American Airlines” had not been met.

Management presented their perspective on AMR’s announcement, stated AA’s need to observe a binding contract with Chautauqua and that there was no opportunity for Eagle to perform the additional flying, and stated that it would not be “economical, practical and feasible” for Eagle to pursue it.

We asked to see the agreement with Chautauqua in order to understand management’s point of view, but were told that access to this agreement would not be possible due to confidentiality and legal constraints.

Eagle management stated that the agreement was between AA and Chautauqua and that Eagle is not a party to the agreement. They also reiterated that Eagle flies “where and when and in the amount our mainline partner requests” and that it is “AA’s network, not ours.”

In our view, these arguments are not compelling. It is very convenient for Eagle to distance itself from this situation when it is obvious that American Airlines and American Eagle, both subsidiaries of AMR Corporation, clearly move together when developing markets and executing AMR’s business plan. The role Eagle management played in 2001 in connection with the initial contracts with Chautauqua and Trans States Airlines confirms the role Eagle would logically play in such transactions.

Before leaving the meeting, we made the following points: 1) Eagle did not make an aggressive effort to pursue the additional flying in Chicago; 2) at the prior case heard by Arbitrator Nolan Chautauqua’s flying for AMR was limited to flying in support of the St. Louis hub; 3) not a single contact was made to the Eagle ALPA MEC office as the AMR plan to give Chautauqua access to its ORD flying was developed; and 4) no opportunity was given for ALPA to contribute to this decision.

The MEC opposes the transfer of ORD flying to Chautauqua and is reviewing its legal options in addressing this dispute.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:46 PM
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I posted this because I would like to know if AA pilots would rather see their little brother getting the business or if they hate their little brother so much they would like to pound his face into the ground and play with his friend next door?

Not starting anything. Just genuinely curious if AA supports Eagle.

Does it make sense AA pilots for another airline to do our flying? We make money for AMR. Not saying AA doesnt!... But factually, Eagle does make money for AMR. Republic (Chautauqua) wont make money for AMR.

And for "Eagle taking AA flying" I think it is naive of an Eagle pilot to celebrate to AA getting reduced. I think Eagle pilots aspire to being a mainline pilot and the last thing we want is to see our big brother shrinking. We want AA around big and strong so when we get older we can be the big brother we idol'd when we were young! If AA could stuff a 737 or MD80 full from ORD to Fargo, than yes you should have the trip. But ya cant and it wont happen. But we should be able to stuff a CRJ-700 and make money.

I dont like seeing Legacies shrink. But I think AA pilots should support Eagle getting the Chautauqua flying.

Last edited by bgmann; 09-26-2009 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:07 AM
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I agree with you on that. From one wholly owned to another. I hope in the long run the Majors get more flying back. Also I beleive it is in the best for both if the big boys work with the little guys a little more. Congrates on getting more 700's. I hope you guys recall soon. I have a friend on a voluntary leave from there. He hates in job now and he can't wait to go back to flying.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
Chautauqua will end up flying AE new
CRJ's. Sad but true.
Umm, where did you get this little nugget? There is no way Chautauqua will be taking airplanes that eagle is buying. Unless B.B. really goes for broke and buys eagle during his next shopping spree.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
Chautauqua will end up flying AE new
CRJ's. Sad but true.
If you knew a bit , just a bit about the airline management, agreements, scope you wouldn't make such a comment.. I guess 'Hating RAH' is the popular thing now..
CHQ is limited to 50 seats and now go and count the # of seats on those CRJ700s ..
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bgmann
I Just genuinely curious if AA supports Eagle.
We will show the Eagle pilots the same amount of "support" they have shown us.

The 9/9 letter from the MEC chair was surreal:

"It not only represents a violation of American Eagles duty to aggressively seek to increase flying opportunities and to pursue bidding on opportunities to provide additional feed to American Airlines but it also transfers existing operations away from American Eagle and the very employees who built these routes and markets. Most egregious is that some of the Eagle pilots who built this operation are still on furlough."

The irony and hypocrisy is so thick you need a chainsaw to cut through it.
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by seattlepilot
If you knew a bit , just a bit about the airline management, agreements, scope you wouldn't make such a comment.. I guess 'Hating RAH' is the popular thing now..
CHQ is limited to 50 seats and now go and count the # of seats on those CRJ700s ..

Just wondering, the new first class seating for the 700's will make this a/c a __ # of seats?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bgmann
Does it make sense AA pilots for another airline to do our flying? We make money for AMR. Not saying AA doesnt!... But factually, Eagle does make money for AMR. Republic (Chautauqua) wont make money for AMR.
Is there anything to support this statement? Can it be proven AMR makes money off eagle but doesn't off CHQ? Can it be proven that Eagle's operating cost is less than that of CHQ's?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Phlying Phallus
We will show the Eagle pilots the same amount of "support" they have shown us.

The 9/9 letter from the MEC chair was surreal:

"It not only represents a violation of American Eagles duty to aggressively seek to increase flying opportunities and to pursue bidding on opportunities to provide additional feed to American Airlines but it also transfers existing operations away from American Eagle and the very employees who built these routes and markets. Most egregious is that some of the Eagle pilots who built this operation are still on furlough."

The irony and hypocrisy is so thick you need a chainsaw to cut through it.
We've been ready to negotiate and work with APA in the past, and have either received the "cold shoulder" or have been dismissed due to "more important" issues.

We are ready to negotiate and work with APA now, as soon as the APA picks up the phone to call EGL ALPA.

I truly believe APA will be surprised by the resolve of EGL pilots if they would only ask.

Capt. Rich Krutenat
EGL MEC Communications Chairman
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:01 PM
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Also, just to be clear as to our position with Chautauqua pilots, here's the last bit of this week's hotline message...

5. Professionalism and Respect for Chautauqua Pilots

Despite our current dispute with management concerning the use of Chautauqua Airlines to perform our flying in Chicago, it is expected that every American Eagle ALPA pilot will conduct themselves professionally and with the utmost respect for the pilots of Chautauqua Airlines. The guilty party here is management, not the pilots of Chautauqua Airlines.

We are currently in the process of reaching out to the pilot leadership at Chautauqua to identify areas of common interest and to develop a dialogue concerning this issue.

As long as there have been airline managements and pilot labor groups, managements have pursued strategies which pit pilot groups against one another.

It is critical that Eagle ALPA pilots show leadership in this situation and demonstrate how union pilots work together to overcome challenges.
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