I was trying to tell you in a nice way that not all senior captains feel that way, since I happen to be one. It really depends on what domicile you are talking about...not sure where you were based, but many of the senior captains in So Cal are not swallowing wholesale quantities of Kool-aid, and realize SAPA has limitations on what they can accomplish.

That's a good point about SoCal base closures, etc. That has happened since I left. I did IOE in SBA, and based in MKE, FAT, and finally SLC.

I was a SAPA rep for SLC region from Oct 2007 until Aug 2008.

SKW does fire people who would have kept their jobs at a union carrier (or at least gotten their job back later). However, in most cases getting fired requires some seriously unprofessional behavior combined with a significant incident or a long negative track record. For this reason most SKW pilots are not up-in-arms over the issue.

Lying or a very bad attitude are usually required ingredients. Going off the end of a runway would probably not be enough if you did it in a professional manner.

The danger is the risk of arbitrary firings due to personality conflict, etc. It doesn't seem to happen often but it has happened (according to at least one jury).

The upgrade thing is different...it doesn't happen often but should not happen at all. But the pilot group is run by CA's...they had to deal with it, so most are not falling all over themselves to abolish the policy. If SAPA pushed to abolish it, I'm sure the company would go along. It's negotiating capital and it's free for the company...why not? I'm not sure a union would change this, since regionals have more CA's than FO's (unlike long-range operations which have relief pilots).

Purely my opinion, but this is what it is going to take to get an ALPO type union at Skywest . . . .

1) Jerry Atkins retiring or for some other reason leaving Skywest. Why is this the critical first step, you ask? Because he has been with Skywest since just about Day 1 of operations. He treats this company and its employees like members of his family. He takes incredible personal pride in Skywest and the success of its business and each employee. He is, from my point of view, a very moral and ethical businessman when it comes to treating his employees with professional courtesy, respect, and dignity.

The day he is no longer commanding Skywest will be last great day for Skywest. Mr. Childs and Mr. Rich if you are reading this, no offense, but I believe you are unknown quantities when it comes to ultimately running Skywest.

2) Final requirement, someone like B. Bedford or J. Ornstein being brought in or purchasing their way into command of Skywest.

I can write this without hesitation, if (1) and (2) occur, those with seniority below me, will move up one spot, because I will quit that day and go do something else for a living. My work life will not be worth that misery and the ultimate cost to my family life is absolutely not worth it.

"Going off the end of a runway would probably not be enough if you did it in a professional manner."

That made me laugh. No disrespect intended as I totally know what your are saying. But it's still pretty funny.

My thoughts (I'm too lazy to quote the right sections):

As to being fired if you fail upgrade ONCE, no way, no how, not at a union carrier. Most contracts protect your job until you fail the third time (e.g., fail oral, then fail the type, you better be on your game for the recheck.) Is that the best way of doing it? Who knows. But it's sure as hell more fair than a one and done type system.

As to ****ing off a union rep and not being represented, legally speaking, this cannot happen. If a pilot wants representation for a disciplinary action the union by law must provide it. It doesn't matter if the guy was caught stealing headsets and selling them on eBay, he still has a right to representation. If the union doesn't provide that they are in deep trouble with the feds.

At my airline, I can only think of about 1 or 2 people that were outright fired in the last 5 years. There were many more that lost their jobs for one reason or for another, but they resigned which will help them gain employment in the future. As we all know, once you get fired from a 121 carrier, you're facing a huge uphill battle for another airline job. A resignation is a different story -- maybe a few questions on an interview but that's it.

It saddens me to hear how many people get fired at SkyWest, and what's worse is all the pilots who support that draconian form of discipline, thinking that it will never happen to them.

You must not work at Skywest.

Skywest does NOT fire you if you fail upgrade ONCE. Skywest has a "three strikes and you are out" upgrade policy. Take your pick of what part of the written, oral, or sim check you want to fail. Fail one part three times, fail each once and yes THAT PERSON SHOULD BE FIRED.

Skywest has a great training department and the job they are very good at is preparing you for your written, oral, and sim check. They will work with you after hours, if you request it. You will get additional sim time, if you request it. If you are not ready on the day of the test, it is not their responsiblity. It is solely the test takers responsibility.

Why on earth would they spends tens of thousands of dollars on your training with the goal of looking to fail you so quickly?

Commanding a multi-million dollar aircraft with many, many peoples lives at stake is a privilege, not an entitlement. Not in all cases, but in many cases, unions breed and foster an entitlement mentality, IN MY OPINION. Flame away, I don't really care.

Skywest is the most fair, honest, descent company I have ever worked for. I am 41 years old and worked for many different companies, large and small in my life so far.

The FEW that have been fired over the years did alot more, and I mean alot more than what you will be lead to believe on these forums.

Ok, I'll bite. What are the big secrets I'm hiding? Just to make it easier for you, my screen name is my real name.

By the way, this poster exemplifies the pervasive overall attitude, IMHO. If you were canned, you must REALLY have been bad. It's an easy one to perpetuate, since you don't need facts to do so.

So, fill us in all knowing one.

I am a 5 year CRJ captain in good standing at Skywest. Whatever your issues were or are with the Skywest Human Resources Dept or Flight Ops are your issues.

Feel free to post details about your former or current employment status on a public forum, under your real name, at your own risk. I certainly would never do it about myself or any other pilot. I have no idea who you are, your name means nothing to me, or what your circumstances were or are.

I will agree with you, my opinion does represent the overall attitude at Skywest, I believe, because this is the factual, real world experience with the VAST MAJORITY of Captain upgrades and new hire FOs.

I have no personal knowledge of any individual cases to the contrary. This is not to say they may not exist, but I just don't know of any. Sorry.

First let me say that we're getting a bit away from the intent of the thread, and that is whether folks at SkW would want a union now, or not. Clearly, you don't. Now to your comments. First you said this:



Then, you said this:



It appears that you don't need facts. You already know what the answers are.



Hey, thanks for permission. Here ya go... now you can look up on your etrip and see if I ever flew with you:

Hire date: 12Feb07
Employee # 30258

By the way, none of that stuff is secret. Everytime I apply to an air carrier job until I'm 65 (I'm 47 now), what are they gunna do? Under PRIA, they're going to get exactly the info that I've shared here.

I personally dislike folks who hide behind a screen name and make slanderous remarks about another person. You said that guys (and I'm one of the fired guys), "did alot more, and I mean alot more".

So, if you don't know the facts behind my firing, or any of the other firings that I outlined, it seems like you're just a 5 year blow hard.

If you have those "more" things, provide them.