TonyWilliams

If ALPA is working for ya, awesome. But, you wouldn't have to go far in the ALPA world of carriers to find those who weren't happy. UAL and Mesa both come to mind. Clearly, USAir East, although admittedly, there were far more reasons for them leaving ALPA than they didn't like 'em;-)

Fundamentally, ALPA has a conflict of interest with mainline carrier pilots and contract carriers.



SkW has some pretty nice hotels, and a committee to keep them that way. Your last sentence argues the benefits of unions, but the brand of union is important, too.

TonyWilliams

Much like the poster who claimed no-union equals bad working conditions, union equals good conditions....

Unfortunately, as Mesa and SkW compare, there is no comparison. But, when there's a next union drive, they'll be told how "bad" it is, and how "good" it will be. And it'll mean nothing.

IFly17

My big reasons I am pro-union is the discipline process and benefits. For example we have an agreement with management to allow SAPA reps into discipline meetings, but we all know that has not always worked out. We need a LEGAL contract that prevents them from ignoring those agreements. We need a discipline process spelled out, and options for appealing-- outside the company through the grievance and mediator. If the company chooses to disregard a contract, there are legal steps that can be taken. Management has already shown they are willing to ignore what I consider is a really important part of a SAPA agreement. Anyone who takes their word a this point has had way to much kool-aid.

I know a lot of guys are content to make SkyWest their final stop, but there are others (like me) who someday HOPE to make it to a major. I want to make sure someone other than a company funded pilots group with no legal teeth has my back. While ALPA may not prevent me from being dragged through the mud, they can hopefully defend me as opposed to defense management may see fit to deny. Anything that can help keep PRIA documents clean is a good thing. A legal contract helps.

I am also afraid of what else they can take. First our ESPP, now our medical benefits. What next? Maybe they'll take everyone's 401k match down to 2%, or eliminate it all together. At 90 days, I had a 4% match when I was a ramper. It will take me how long to get that at SkyWest? 7 years? It was a crummy IAM ramp contract, but one that provided double my current match.

I'm lucky, my fiance has great health benefits. There are a lot of people who need the SkyWest insurance for their families because their spouse does not work, or does not have very good benefits. What are they supposed to do? I stand in support of all the guys who could be really screwed by the new health plans.

Management is going to keep taking until we say enough already and stand up to them. If that means a union, I'm in. Anyone but teamsters. However if we have another union drive and it fails, it tells the company we have no spine and they can do whatever they want. We'd be screwed.

The Juice

That is not what I claimed. I was responding to someone who mentioned that his friends at Mesa, RAH, and XJET hate their union. The can hate it but I would go as far to say that those airlines would have less pay, benefits, and QOL (yes even for Mesa) if there wasn't a union on property.

nigelcobalt

Exactly! Can you imagine Mesa without a binding contract? I'm sure JO is a real stand up guy, he'd never go against his word.

BHopper88

The best example of a pilot union for the most point meshing with a mgmt group is SWA...

As a pilot and even any employee you can be PRO UNION and PRO COMPANY...

its about what is fair to the work force and fair for the company in which they both can grow and prosper in the industry... Its when one or both sides start to act, shall we say GREEDY, that things get out of whack and trust is broken...

There are many examples of this in almost every UNION industry... The auto and airline industries are huge examples of this.

Trust is hard to gain and EASILY destroyed...

Chente

May not solve it but I can GUARANTEE you it would help. I get it...ALPA is not the End all to all the problems but it is much better than what you guys have now which is nothing. I left SkyWest about two years ago right after the Union vote was going through and I voted in favor of it. Amazed me how many guys didn't vote because there were "good" thing coming...Really? "Good" things????Oh you mean the good things Brad Holt talked about in the letters he send out to all the Pilots in favor of voting down ALPA? You know what the good things that came of it were???? I Bet the higher ups told him if you help keep ALPA off property, you will get a promotion.....guess what he became after ALPA was voted down....CEO of ASA...Great things for the Pilot group at SW. I told it to all of my FO's then and I will still say it now.....If you voted against ALPA, I NEVER want to hear you complain......
That said, I am very happy to be out of there and be at a major with ALPA. The work rules and the way we are treated are day and night compared to SW.
Could there be improvements? Of course. But would I change the fact of wanting ALPA? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

TheDashRocks

I respect you for being pro-Union. A lot of the discussion will come down to how we define "far better." I have not seen or heard anything that convinces me that pilots at other regionals have it far better than I did.

I respect current and past members of the MAG Pilot Group and its leaders. They have fought with an employer that is as hard-nosed as any in the industry. They forced the abolition of a non-union alter ego, prevented JO from establishing a B737 operation based in PHL, and have steadily improved work rules. This last has occurred during a time when other pilot groups have signed concessionary agreements. Everyone wants to castigate MAG pilots for not leap-frogging to an industry leading contract. This view is simplistic and unrealistic.

Everyone's situation is different. Here is why I am glad to have worked at Mesa rather than SKW;

-Flew the Dash instead of a plane that belongs parked among the King Airs and Cheyennes at an FBO. (I'm teasing...relax Bra pilots).

-At SKW I would be a very junior E120 FO in FAT with a vicious 2 leg commute utilizing an airplane that is often weight restricted. I might be upgraded in the middle of the next decade. I would probably still have stars in my eyes about being an airline pilot and think, 'someday when hiring starts again, I'll get off reserve and move to a better base. In the distant future, I might even get to sit in the left seat!'

-At Mesa I was given an opportunity to work hard and rise to a challenge. In exchange for successfully completing training, I was given the privilege of commanding a 37 seat airliner at some of the world's most challenging airports. I trained and flew with tremendous people who patiently mentored me; I would not have been successful without them. I am now furloughed, but with a much clearer idea of what the industry is about. I have learned that for me, being a regional FO is not worth commuting. I would not want to sit as an FO for more than a couple of years, even without a commute. Being a regional CA for an extended period is probably not worth my commute.

Thanks again for being pro-union.

The Dash Whisperer

ehaeckercfi

Yes to ALPA

Koolaidman

My guess as to why they are trying to cut costs (healthcare, ESPP, etc) is because management sees no further growth without assuming risk. Therefore, any way they can cut costs and sugar coat what they are doing, they will do it. My opinion is that they will continue to assume at-risk markets with United in order to keep things status quo, or even grow if the possibility exists in the next few years.

I voted no last time. However, I am strongly re-considering how I'll vote next time around. Duvie made some good points, but in the three years I've been here the "benefits" have gone down while management still says we are among the best compensated compared to other regionals.