I am going to assume you were trying to get into this career around the early 90's? How do you compare now to then? I have heard and read that it was just wicked in the early 90's. Upgrading on a metro took 4000-5000 total time. Pan Am and Eastern pilots looking for work, and the first Gulf war going on made it tough.

 

I actually got into aviation in the mid 80's..... You are correct that during down times finding a job is tough at best. When I was hired at a regional the hiring mins were 2500TT 500ME, some got in with less but not many. Upgrade was normally 3-6 years depending upon who you worked for. Then as you state between furloughing airlines plus airlines going out of business jobs were scarce and upgrades non-existent. Pay was where it has always been for a regional, in the gutter!

When I finally hired on with NWA the average guy in my class had over 11,000TT and 3 type ratings. All had thousands of hours of PICS..... The road in the profession can be tough. There are those that land on a smooth path and have great transitions in their careers, while others can't seem to catch a break. Most of this is nothing more than dedication and timing.

 

There are several options to lighten the burden of commercial aviation on the finances:

Air National Guard - Home

1800goguard.com

Baseops Forums

U.S. Army Recruiting Command's Warrant Officer Recruiting Information Site

 

Also if you do not qualify for military aviation due to age, vision, etc you might still want to consider the military reserves or guard in a non-flying capacity.

The pay gets pretty decent over time (for officers), it can provide the retirement that airlines won't (the medical may be the most valuable part of the package), and it will be good for your white-collar professional development and networking in case you ever need a fall-back career. If direct-action combat isn't your bag, there are many support jobs available...more of those than shooter jobs.

It is the easiest "side-job" to schedule around the airlines...you tell them when you will be gone, and the airline says "OK".

Obviously you need a desire to serve and a willingness to deploy in a combat zone.

 

Have you considered ATC or engineering (in the aviation field)? After 4 years in the industry, I am working on another career. You are right in noticing that the airline pilot career is in bad condition right now. But not only that, its getting a lot worse. With that being said, flying is a whole lot of fun. I specially love airline flying! Thats why there are so many guys willing to do it for nothing. The low pay and bad working conditions are there for one reason; supply and demand. Right now there are way too many pilots and not nearly enough pilot jobs. I ***** and moan quite a bit about RAH on here but in the end the industry is bad and going to get a lot more worse not because of RAH, Mesa, GO, Sky West, Express Jet, Comair etc etc etc.... its only because of supply and demand. The reason I believe its going to get a lot worse is because until now, we believed that bad pay and working conditions is something we all had to endure at the regionals for a time till we reach the "promised land" (the major airlines)... but now even major airline pay will be as bad as regional pay. Unions, while they do a lot of good, in the end cannot do anything about long term pay rates because once a pilot group refuses to fly for lower wages, another pilot group will do it.... and once again, its supply and demand, not because one pilot group is "better" than the other.

Remember, flying is a lot of fun but it wont help you raise a family, save for retirement and live a decent life... unless you get lucky.

6 years later, one hefty flight school loan that I will be paying for a long time and now I'm finding another career... would I do it all over again?
... Sadly yes. it was one hell of a ride.

 

Huh? Why do you spread your incorrect opinion as some sort of fact, to deter people? Your statement is 100% false.

I raise a family, save for retirement and live a decent life while flying. I am an Regional Captain, 7th year. My wife is a stay at home mom. My pay feeds, clothes and raises my family. We live in a 2100 sq foot home on a 2 acre lot on a cul-de-sac. We take a couple trips a year to the beach or some fun location. We regularly attend sporting events or go to museums, amusement parks, mountain cabins, etc. I save between 15-20% of my pay for retirement. Are we living like Jay Z or A Rod? No. But neither is 99.9% of society. My neighbors all have jobs like office manager, police sargeant, delivery driver, salesmen, or middle management. My pay puts me on par or ahead of them. Where do you come up with this kind of statement? Why can you not live a decent life and raise a family on $75,000 - $100,000 per year? Most Americans make less than that. One most certainly can live a decent life from flying - even at the Regional level.

 

I could run through my resume but I will not. Lets say that I did my time. I had over 3800 hours before I was able to make it to my first regional.

The recession of the early 1990's sidelined my generation for about 5 years. I applied to every major for most of the last two decades and scrapped up every flying job I could. The problem is that it takes too much luck. If someone is comfortable with those odds then perhaps they should take the 150K in college and flight training loans and buy a pile of lottery tickets instead?

You left behind 11,600 pilot who possibly are still struggling at their regionals, had to give up or are furloughed. It comes off as incredibly insensitive, superior and unappreciative of the blessings you have to come onto these forums during a recession and suggest that the rest of us did not work hard enough. The truth is that it takes strong internal contacts or a massive amount of luck.

The current generation of new pilots are facing a situation that generations past can not comprehend. They have been handed the worst economic conditions since the great depression. On top of that the industry seems intent upon destroying itself. It is not fair, kind nor accurate to try and apply your experiences to their prospects.

Skyhigh

 

Not to hijack, but I don't think that the point was that the numbers don't jive. After 2 or 3 years, even an FO can at least contribute to household income bringing in 35-40k. A CA can bring in more.

The idea, if I am correct, is that the lack of job security makes it tough. For example, an FO gets hired and flies for a year or two, is just starting to get decent pay, then gets furloughed for a year. The effective annual salary earned, allocated over the period including that year of no pay, is reduced substantially. Never mind paying on loans if he/she has them. Then a recall, stays at FO pay for many years, finally gets an upgrade to the left seat and better money. Flies as CA for 6 months or so, then a downgrade back to FO and commensurate pay.

Soon enough, back to CA pay again, then gets on with a major airline (a crap shoot now days it seems). Gets furloughed from the major airline after a bit. Gets recalled and flies as a major airline FO for many many years. Company eventually goes out of business. The pilot is on the street again and is forced to take another job at first year pay all over again and/or faces another few years on the street.

Throw in a medical problem and he's done for good.

In the regional airline world playing musical domiciles, commuting can severely reduce the time (not money) that you have with a family.

Is everyone's path going to be this rocky? No. But many will experience something similar.

 

Sorry if I came across as insensitive or superior..... I was just trying to point out that the airline industry has always been cyclic. When times are good lots of hiring takes place and wages increase, in the bad the opposite is true. The guys that make it to the majors are normally the ones who put in the most effort to get hired. Normally they all have high time, lots of PIC experience, a 4 year degree, and in good health and well rounded. I am not saying you aren't/didn't try to get hired or that you don't meet the above parameters, I am just saying that I know what the guys in my class did to get hired and it was a lot more than just send in a resume.

As the economy improves airlines will once again expand and hire. Getting in at the beginning of any hiring hopefully will offer a seniority number that will protect one when the times get bad again.

 

You have alot of decisions to make. Luckily, you're only 200 hours in. Many of us have devoted so much blood sweat and tears to this career that it would be a shame to drop out now. All we can hope for is a better future, whatever that might be.

I'm not sure if this board is the best place to be looking for this kind of advice though, there are al ot of bitter and ****ed off people here, but they have they're reasons and I don't blame them.

That being said, I'll offer my suggestion. ATC is a GREAT career, with good income, a solid retirement, and great insurance. It's also incredibly stable, and you don't need a college degree to get in to. Watching air planes take off from the tower, or cramming 30 airplanes in to 90 miles during crappy weather in the northeast and then flight instructing on the weekends is a GREAT balance. If you truly love aviation and its your passion its the only thing you'll ever want to do no matter what job that might be.