mumu

Ding ding ding...show him the prizes, Johnny. You're my hero. Well said, sir/madam.

duece123

How will this effect the military guys? Not the active duty type, but the ANG/USAFR young part time guy that are trying to get into civ flying? Seeing that a mil heavy driver flys 300-400 hours a year, and a fighter type may only fly 1500hrs in his entire career, will they be held up by not having the time for an ATP? That dosent seem right. As a civ and mil trained guy, I can assure you there is a HUGE difference in 1500TT in a cessna vs. heavy multi turbine AC. What do you think?

crustacean

Why should we give special treatment to some, but not others? What about someone that scored a Part 91 gig flying a King Air or even Lear Jet? Is their time more worthwhile than someone that instructed?

Get 1,500 hours like everyone else; no special treatment.

Mesabah

Pay scales are not determined by experience in this profession, rather by equipment and years of service at a company. All 1500hrs is going to do is force the airline to hire high time pilots with violations. A great safety plan!!!

USMCFLYR

Everyone I know (past and present) in the military trying to get out and fly all have their 1,500 and the vast majority get their ATP before getting out. With the contracts being as long as they are now (10 years after wings isn't it?), unless there are some unusual circumstances, by the time they have complete their obligation they (even the tactical guys) will have their 1,500 hours. Otherwise - I agree - find a way to get more time. 1,500 hours is 1,500 hours - no less.

USMCFLYR

duece123

I totally agree with you. I dont think mil guys should get special treatment. Maybe this whole 1500TT/ATP thing is bogus. So, a guy that towed banners/jumpers/whatever burning holes in the sky for 2yrs/1500hrs is more prepared for an RJ than a guy who flies in the military for 3yrs/1000hrs? If the quality of the 1500 hrs is not considered, then what is the point?

Edit: not a mil vs. civ issue. I know there are great ways to build legit civ experience

USMC-Ill agree with you, most active duty guys that put in 10yrs will have 1500 or more by the time they get out. However, the ANG and USAFR hires 0 time guys and sends them through UPT. At the end of the seasoning tour, they either stay around and bum (good deal if it can be done), or they are off looking for work. In the past, many guys have gone to a regional and flown as a partimer in the mil. Now they will be unqualified to do that because of this rule. I think it is a crock that just because they don’t have 1500TT they will get passed over, even though they US Government trust them with the same responsibility.

crustacean

I have absolutely no argument that the quality of time matters, yet I don't know how you'd go about judging that. I suppose you could give a rating to each flight hour logged. For example, tooling around the sky earns you 0.1 (lowest), and something like flying a multi-engine aircraft cross-country, with inclement weather, and so on would earn you a 1.0 (highest). However, I don't see that ever happening due to the sheer amount of work it'd take, and the enormous mess it'd create. That's why it's simply easier to say "ATP required", modify some of the Practical Test Standards, and completely rewrite the written exams (and keep rewriting them).

SabreDriver

I would respectfully disagree. The new rules will force companies to hire guys with an ATP. Companies will continue to hire the highest quality folks they can find, just from the ruling going forward, they will all have an ATP.

Pay scales are determined by contract negotiations, nothing more. It is not what you are worth, it is what you can negotiate into your contract.

USMCFLYR

You're right - I wasn't considering that route. That might be an advantage of going full time vice Reserves or ANG then. The QUALITY of the time and the training is still there; you might just have to wait a little longer for the airlines if you chose to go that route.

USMCFLYR

Hot Rod Wannabe

Sabre, your being Naive. You think that the salaries for regionals are just from negotiating contracts? Where do you think all regional F/O's started in the first place with less than 1500 hours. You think that by making F/O's ATP from a check ride in the simulator is going to make Regionals more or less safe?