Subcontract Airlines (Part 121 "Regional")
06-22-2010, 08:05 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 133
Mainline pilots gave up scope and allowed regional jets on their turf because management enticed them with increased pay/benefits as a reward OR because bankruptcy courts forced them to.
For those that took an increase in pay as a reward for loosening scope, and for those that felt they were above flying turboprops or regional jets.. YOU created this mess. YOU were the real tools managements utilized to create a new era of whipsawing aviation labor. Your self-centeredness and lack of foresight was the beginning of the end of our industry.
As far as the RJ goes.. it started in the 1990s as Delta allowed Comair to explode on the scene with their new CRJ100s. Maybe they didn't know any better and couldn't foresee the jets taking over long non-regional routes and becoming the new hub poachers but they should have.
For those who had bankruptcy rulings force violations of their scope and allow 70-90 seat RJs on their turf, you were screwed by bankruptcy laws that need to change. There is a large movement industry wide to change bankruptcy law to favor airline labor. I suggest donating to your union's political action committee or something.
Changing the name of the Regional category as a political statement is one of the dumbest and most fruitless ideas I've come across on this site. What's next.. should Bombardier and Embraer be lobbied to call their machines Contract Jets or maybe Fee For Departure Jets?! Don't forget, plenty of wholly owned subsidiaries fly them too and are not contract carriers.
For those that took an increase in pay as a reward for loosening scope, and for those that felt they were above flying turboprops or regional jets.. YOU created this mess. YOU were the real tools managements utilized to create a new era of whipsawing aviation labor. Your self-centeredness and lack of foresight was the beginning of the end of our industry.
As far as the RJ goes.. it started in the 1990s as Delta allowed Comair to explode on the scene with their new CRJ100s. Maybe they didn't know any better and couldn't foresee the jets taking over long non-regional routes and becoming the new hub poachers but they should have.
For those who had bankruptcy rulings force violations of their scope and allow 70-90 seat RJs on their turf, you were screwed by bankruptcy laws that need to change. There is a large movement industry wide to change bankruptcy law to favor airline labor. I suggest donating to your union's political action committee or something.
Changing the name of the Regional category as a political statement is one of the dumbest and most fruitless ideas I've come across on this site. What's next.. should Bombardier and Embraer be lobbied to call their machines Contract Jets or maybe Fee For Departure Jets?! Don't forget, plenty of wholly owned subsidiaries fly them too and are not contract carriers.
06-22-2010, 11:12 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Originally Posted by Fugazi
Changing the name of the Regional category as a political statement is one of the dumbest and most fruitless ideas I've come across on this site. What's next.. should Bombardier and Embraer be lobbied to call their machines Contract Jets or maybe Fee For Departure Jets?! Don't forget, plenty of wholly owned subsidiaries fly them too and are not contract carriers.
Interesting thoughts. I somewhat agree about a forum name change being a political statement, but still think the name should be changed to reflect reality.
What Bombardier or Embraer does with the names of the planes they sell is strictly their business, and which nobody (but you) has addressed.
Besides, beyond your example, those aircraft are flown by REAL LIVE AIRLINES around the world.
06-22-2010, 04:40 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by Fugazi
Mainline pilots gave up scope and allowed regional jets on their turf because management enticed them with increased pay/benefits as a reward OR because bankruptcy courts forced them to.
For those that took an increase in pay as a reward for loosening scope, and for those that felt they were above flying turboprops or regional jets.. YOU created this mess. YOU were the real tools managements utilized to create a new era of whipsawing aviation labor. Your self-centeredness and lack of foresight was the beginning of the end of our industry.
As far as the RJ goes.. it started in the 1990s as Delta allowed Comair to explode on the scene with their new CRJ100s. Maybe they didn't know any better and couldn't foresee the jets taking over long non-regional routes and becoming the new hub poachers but they should have.
For those who had bankruptcy rulings force violations of their scope and allow 70-90 seat RJs on their turf, you were screwed by bankruptcy laws that need to change. There is a large movement industry wide to change bankruptcy law to favor airline labor. I suggest donating to your union's political action committee or something.
For those that took an increase in pay as a reward for loosening scope, and for those that felt they were above flying turboprops or regional jets.. YOU created this mess. YOU were the real tools managements utilized to create a new era of whipsawing aviation labor. Your self-centeredness and lack of foresight was the beginning of the end of our industry.
As far as the RJ goes.. it started in the 1990s as Delta allowed Comair to explode on the scene with their new CRJ100s. Maybe they didn't know any better and couldn't foresee the jets taking over long non-regional routes and becoming the new hub poachers but they should have.
For those who had bankruptcy rulings force violations of their scope and allow 70-90 seat RJs on their turf, you were screwed by bankruptcy laws that need to change. There is a large movement industry wide to change bankruptcy law to favor airline labor. I suggest donating to your union's political action committee or something.
I totally agree...I don't think that the legacy airline pilots knew the full ramifications of their scope relief. I hope that they now fully understand what needs to be done to reverse this trend.
Originally Posted by Fugazi
Changing the name of the Regional category as a political statement is one of the dumbest and most fruitless ideas I've come across on this site. What's next.. should Bombardier and Embraer be lobbied to call their machines Contract Jets or maybe Fee For Departure Jets?! Don't forget, plenty of wholly owned subsidiaries fly them too and are not contract carriers.
Manufacturers can call their aircraft what they please.
Wholly owned subsidiaries are effectively a resurrection of b-scale airline labor structure. There is very little difference between wholly owned and outsourced airlines. They are simply different tools in airline managment's whipsaw toolbox. The only difference is that wholly owned airlines don't have the benefit of holding thier "mainline" partner to their contractual obligations. The pilots of a wholly owned airline are actually at a disadvantage as they operate entirely at the mercy of their "mainline" partner.
One livery...one certificate...one list!
winglet
Last edited by winglet; 06-22-2010 at 05:49 PM.
06-22-2010, 08:28 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 133
Many pilots at wholly owneds sought employment at such companies as a way to either flow up or get preferential hiring. Probably not the smartest thing to hope for but it made sense at one time or another.
B scale.. Absolutely. Include the whipsawing and we're talking C and D scale sadly enough. It ALL goes back to violations of scope or the senior mainline folks giving it up for personal benefit. ALPA not handling it too well at times shouldn't go unmentioned either.
People need to wake up to the reality of the unfortunate situation. 50% bankruptcy law abuse and 50% arrogant self centered pilot syndrome. Business schools teach classes on utilizing such effective tools.
B scale.. Absolutely. Include the whipsawing and we're talking C and D scale sadly enough. It ALL goes back to violations of scope or the senior mainline folks giving it up for personal benefit. ALPA not handling it too well at times shouldn't go unmentioned either.
People need to wake up to the reality of the unfortunate situation. 50% bankruptcy law abuse and 50% arrogant self centered pilot syndrome. Business schools teach classes on utilizing such effective tools.
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