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Old 05-30-2010, 03:39 PM   #21  
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Well... we do live in a democratic nation. Shall we take it to a vote?

The Regional Forum name should be changed to:
1. Keep it the same. Regional airlines.
2. Contract Carriers.
3. Domestic Mainline Feeders
4. Legacy Lackeys
5. Contracted Small Lift Providers
6. Dependent Operators
7. Contract Airlines
8. Red-headed Step-Children (that's a joke)

Feel free to add to the list and maybe APCF will make an official poll out of it.
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:32 PM   #22  
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We'll also have to snuff the title "Regional Jet" (RJ).........they should just be "SJ's" (Small Jets). Yes, pilots flying for "Contract Airlines" operate "Small Jets" (SJ).

Aside from being more truthful, it sounds better.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:07 PM   #23  
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It would be really nice if ALPA would try to foster this change as well. I like grassroots efforts like this but think going from the top down would make things easier. A forum name change is a good start though.
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:23 AM   #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhed51 View Post
It would be really nice if ALPA would try to foster this change as well. I like grassroots efforts like this but think going from the top down would make things easier. A forum name change is a good start though.
Copperhead51,

It would be great if ALPA would focus on the primary problem in the industry but as usual elected leadership only reacts to pressure from the wealthiest donors. ALPA National is more concerned with the problems of their largest contributors and are unable to see the primary cause of their industry's problems. It is going to take the lowly outsourced contract pilot to force change at the top. Changing the name of the type of flying outsourced contract pilots do is just a small step in getting attention focused on the root of the problem.

First APC Forums, then the World !

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Old 05-31-2010, 06:25 AM   #25  
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How about the "A-team" (Mainline)

and the "The Replacements" (regionals)
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:23 AM   #26  
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Better than Contract Carriers, call the forum and aviation segment what it really is (and don't take it as an insult, it should foster nothing but a desire for change).

OUTSOURCED LABOR
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:39 PM   #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahas3 View Post
Better than Contract Carriers, call the forum and aviation segment what it really is (and don't take it as an insult, it should foster nothing but a desire for change).

OUTSOURCED LABOR

The contacted carriers are not "outsourced labor", unless I guess the planes were owned by the contracting carrier.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:32 PM   #28  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahas3 View Post
Better than Contract Carriers, call the forum and aviation segment what it really is (and don't take it as an insult, it should foster nothing but a desire for change).

OUTSOURCED LABOR
yamahas3,

Most outsourced, contract, replacement, b-scale, (derogatory name here) pilots will agree with you. Any intelligent pilot flying any aircraft painted with a major carriers logo on the tail and is not a major airline pilot is well aware that they are "outsourced labor" (you noticed I said "intelligent"). This past decade of pilot hiring has not offered any alternatives. I'll say it again, this is by design not by accident.

The question is; "What are we going to do about it"? Major airline managements have created this business model to enable whipsaw amongst the pilot groups and have been very successful at it. There are legions of dupes who will fall into the "my crappy outsourced or b-scale airline is better than your crappy outsourced or b-scale airline" mentality which only enables management to continue their path of self-destruction. Every outsourced airline will have unlimited numbers of applicants to fly their small jets and they are well aware of this. Expecting the lowest bidders to disappear is insanity. The "lowest bidders" are not going to suddenly vanish because of name-calling.

It has become obvious that the airline labor leadership is ignorant of the root cause of the demise of the industry. The individual pilot groups have to each involve themselves in this grass-roots effort of changing the name of this type of flying to bring attention to the fact that they are indeed outsourced small jets. The major airline pilots need to stop complaining about the "replacement jets", swallow their pride, wake up and fight for scope. The outsourced pilots need to stop complaining about the "bottom feeder" outsourced airline, fight the tendency to fall into the blame game, fight the whipsaw, and encourage their mainline brothers and sisters to absorb the small jet flying. They need to spend their valuable time educating the newcomers about the realities of the "race to the bottom".

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Old 05-31-2010, 03:49 PM   #29  
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Perhaps this is just the idea we need, we also need alpa to go to bat on advertising that name change like crazy.

I think about the change in perception that's circling around bottled water, for years water filters went after bottled water saying... we're cheaper than bottled water,and didn't get much traction because the people buying bottled water probably weren't too concerned with price. Now they've come up with the environment angle, use water filters because they prevent wasteful plastic trash... I was at the gas station the other day, saw a water bottle and was like... geez, how wasteful.... mission accomplished water filter companies... So maybe this is exactly the game changer we need as airline pilots.

Change everyones perception from "regional" to "contract" and suddenly it doesn't have the illusion that it'spart of the mother airline, now it's very clear the relationship is strictly one of contract.
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Old 05-31-2010, 05:32 PM   #30  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCarl View Post
Well... we do live in a democratic nation. Shall we take it to a vote?

The Regional Forum name should be changed to:
1. Keep it the same. Regional airlines.
2. Contract Carriers.
3. Domestic Mainline Feeders
4. Legacy Lackeys
5. Contracted Small Lift Providers
6. Dependent Operators
7. Contract Airlines
8. Red-headed Step-Children (that's a joke)

Feel free to add to the list and maybe APCF will make an official poll out of it.
You forgot number nine which would be by far the most accurate description of
what we are: Inexperienced Replacement Airlines.

This name accurately represents all the unsaid nuances of what we are and what's becoming of the domestic airline scene.
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