Deleted........

 

JDFlyer

How would you feel about this pay proposal if you were a FO?

 

He doesn't care. That's the typical "I got mine, so ef you" attitude that is so rampant at SkyWest.

 

Other than wait for SWA (which uses and contracts with ALPA ) to take you out of the pool, what is the plan if DPA or DALPA close down scope in a major way on the next go round with the help of a Delta Air Lines who wants out of the RJ business?

That thread is about ALPA National and the fact that many guys are outraged that they represent the interests of rj pilots at the same time they represent mainline. But its not anti-union because unless you missed it, DPA is a union. Read it.

So even as a conservative right winger I am absolutely not anti-union. I've seen it from the inside and I see them as tantamount to what an agent is to an athlete or actor or a personal lawyer is to a wealthy person.

So on the local level, I like unions and the unionization of Skywest pilots is up to Skywest pilots. I'm not sure why thats viewed as a bad thing at Skywest. You don't do contracts based on having a CEO that is good and who likes you and you all drink koolaid from the same cup, you get contracts and get things in writing because you have to plan on the next CEO or the one after that who is hell bent on cutting pay and QOL. Thats why you have unions.

Whether you like ALPA or not, I'm not really sure there is much else to chose from for right now. And because half your pilots, to the glee of some Captains evidently, don't get paid enough to have enough dues money to have a union of quality without it subsidized by other airlines who don't call 1% pay raises the best they can get at the probable end of a recession.

 

Thanks for an honest question, I will give an honest answer. If I was still an FO at Skywest I would vote FOR the pay proposal. Here is why:

1) Let me first say, we all deserve better pay. ALL of us, not just Skywest pilots, but industry wide pilots deserve better pay. However, United and Delta pay what they pay for sub-contract air carrier service for THEIR passengers. They reality is they don't really care who does it. They want a reasonable service standard for the lowest cost. Being a Skywest or Comair or XJET pilot and $4 will buy you a cr@p cup of coffee at Starbucks.

2) Based on the pay data provided to all Skywest pilots in the form of the SAPA Pay Proposal package that charts and graphs the pay proposal, for 2011 Skywest 50 seat CRJ FO's will be paid the HIGHEST in the industry for what they are qualified to do. Turboprop FO pay will be middle of the industry.

3) For 2011 Skywest CA's will be paid approximately 3rd or 4th highest in the industry, depending upon years of service. Up until about year 10 Express Jet, American Eagle and Mesaba pay their CA's more.

4) Our turboprop CA's will be paid about industry average.

5) Again, in my opinion the best part of all of this, for this pay issue alone, without regard to anything else, we do NOT have to pay ALPA 1.85% or 1.95% as a TAX for the pleasure of them negotiating these payrates. Skywest CRJ FO's make more money than Comair FO's, Express Jet FO's, Mesa/Freedom FO's, etc. who all pay ALPA dues.

4) Based on industry averages Skywest 50 seat CRJ FO's are doing extremely well. In fact they are doing BETTER than Skywest CA's. No message is being sent to St. George or others in the industry for voting NO. No grand statement of moral purpose is being laid out for anybody who cares to listen. Industry standard pay is industry standard pay. The only practical way a Skywest FO will make substantially more money is (1) to upgrade or (2) get hired at Delta. They just took several of our FO's. I wish them the best and a heart felt congratulations. I am sure they will do great over there.

For the lifer FO and the lifer CA, I am sure they are not happy with the pay rates. I don't know what to say, except that they choose to be lifers in their seat. Up until about 3 years ago, the upgrade door was wide open. It is now closed shut. What can I say, that is the industry we work in. THAT LITTLE REALITY IS NOT SKYWEST MANAGEMENTS FAULT OR CAUSE.

(The best airline advice I ever received was from a Continental Captain a very long time ago was: (1) get your ratings as cheaply as possible, they are all government issued and (2) NEVER, EVER pass up an upgrade opportunity. When the music stops you better be happy in the seat you are sitting, because you may be sitting there for a very, very long time.)

Perhaps an analogy is best used to finish this response. Take the McDonald's in the F Concourse at O'Hare. Those of us that work there regularly know it well. Because I am friends with a Skywest FO who's father is a big whig at McDonald's corporate in Chicago, I know that, that particular McDonalds is very, very profitable. Now if you were the owner of that McDonalds, would you pay your fry-guy, or your order-taker more than industry average for the job they are doing for you just because your particular McDonald's is a printing press for cash?

I dare predict that your answer would be a resounding NO. If the "market" price for a fry-guy is $10/hour that is what you are going to pay them. And if they will not do it for $10 but will for $11, you are a sucker as a business owner to pay the $11 if there are 10 other people with resumes in your desk who will do it for $10.

If you or any other Skywest FO votes NO, I respect your opinion. I wish other posters on this thread would respect my opinion for voting YES. As I said in an earlier post, if you vote NO, I would encourage you to volunteer your time and effort to work with your SAPA Rep to move forward with an alternate pay proposal. I am not in favor of this money staying in the hands of management any longer than it needs to. All they are going to do is keep earning interest on it, laughing all the way to the bank while we take 6 months or a year to "figure it out."

(Before anybody gets their panties in a wad because they think I am comparing the fry-guy at McDonalds to a Skywest FO, all I have to say is get over yourself. My analogy is about a fundamental business principal, not about demeaning anybody in our profession.)

 

SkyWest makes these wages on the coat tails of Unions who did the heavy lifting.

Never in the history of business has a company said "we are making tons of money, lets open the flood gates and give everyone a raise". Sometimes labor has to demand a proper wage and work rules.'

SkyWest is building this recession into a future wage increase. We have to demand what we are worth. Management knows we are worth it. It's about time you knew it too.

Take the coins thrown at us and vote in (Non-ALPA) union!

 

If you think this is a "fundamental business principal, then what do you consider SWA's principle on paying their 737 crews above and beyond any other crews on that equipment?

 

Thank you.

You could take it a step farther. Look at what UPS/FedEx pay their pilots COMPARED to what the pax haulers were making when those CBA's were negotiated.

FedEx/UPS were making sick amounts of money at that time, and the unions were able to negotiate pay that was/is above ANY legacy. Then AND now.

The McDonald's analogy simply doesn't cut it.

 

I will be voting NO for the pay package. I won't vote for a plan that simply widens the income gap between CA and FO, dropping FO pay below 60% of CA pay. I won't vote for a plan that creates a separate -900 scale for CAs but not for FOs. I won't vote for a plan that incorporate graphs showing industry average wages that omitted carriers like Horizon and included carriers with 7+ year old contracts that are currently under negotation and have been for the past 2+ years.

I'm sorry but paying CAs more for larger airplanes at regionals but not the FOs is an antiquated way of thinking. That split of pay was created back when things were booming and it was easy to completely lowball the FO position because upgrades were moving quickly and people weren't riding shotgun for years on end.

The soldiers' of the 54th Massachusetts didn't accept less wages for doing the same job as other fighing men and SkyWest FOs shouldn't accept less money (i.e. -700 payscale for the -900) either. I can afford to say NO to the 1% I'm being offered for the -200, the 0% for the -700, and the 0% for the -900. If I'm only being offered 1% then it's painfully clear that SkyWest needs the money more than I do. Chip can keep it and hopefully in a couple years we'll be able to talk with him in more mediated negotiations.

 

+1

Now there is an articulate, thought out, respectable post about why this particular Skywest pilot will vote NO to the pay proposal.

I may professionally disagree with you, but thank you for posting your viewpoint and giving a thoughtful response to this thread!