PapaMike, I actually understood exactly what you were saying in that quote. You apparently did not read my quote carefully enough the first time. You ask how long it took us to get to this point before, and that answer is in my post. I will actually answer it again here though, and in greater detail.

Pinnacle negotiations for TA2 began on March 8 and ended on June 24. Total time = 109 days (give or take a few cause I'm tired). At that time we put on ice. That 109 days includes weekends and time when the NMB was unavailable.

Joint Contract Negotiations began during the week of Sept 10. I am not sure which days we were negotiating that week, so I'll start counting on the 10th. It is now December 12th. Total time = 94 days (give or take a few cause I'm still tired).

You say how much quicker we have gotten to this point, but it is really only 15 days. And in the Pinnacle only negotiations, we weren't even at the table from May 13-June 21 while we waited for our turn with the NMB. With that in mind, it could actually be argued that we made more progress in less time under our own negotiations than we are now under the joint sessions.

Hopefully that is a wake up call to some of the "progress is being made" people.


Disclaimer: I would also like to say that I believe that it is in our best interest (ours meaning all 3 groups) to get a joint contract. That is what I would like. There is no way that any 1 group will get alone what the 3 groups can get together.

The point we're at right now is approximately where we were after the intensive legislative scrutiny the failed TA went through. The company used that TA as a starting point. Well, congrats. We're now as far as we were in January. So, I guess the answer to the question would be "0 days." The things that needing fixing from TA1 were what was being worked on for our TA2. Those are the sections currently open in the JCBA right now. So, it's taken us this far to get where 9E was back in January. Don't throw your arms out of your sockets patting yourselves on the back. THIS is why 9E guys are so skeptical. We're to the point where the company has been dragging their feet all along.

Just found out that the CAL MEC and XJT MEC are backing us up in JFK. So much for ALPA not supporting the picketing.....

As often as they could. Under mediated negotiations, unfortunately, you're on the NMB's schedule. There were times when the company wouldn't even let the negotiators out of their trips to negotiate, though. MEC reps would have to start calling guys asking them to pick up the negotiator's trip so they could meet with the company.

The company really seemed in no hurry, which is why not many of us were shocked when we hit the 45 day "deadline," and the company didn't want to meet again for another couple of weeks. Once again, if they really wanted to "get it done," why wait so long? I mean, DW isn't gonna miss Thanksgiving for anything, but come on.

No, you were never at this point last January. Many of you fail to accept that these are now JOINT negotiations. Three MECs at the table working for one contract is much more dynamic than one.

You are correct, there were no scheduled negotiations yesterday. The memo said "by the end of the week", which was yesterday.

do you have written certified proof of this written in pig's blood while one hand is on the Bible?

Sure sure, Joint Negotiations, we get it... all hail the Mesaba MEC and pilot group who will come to our rescue and ensure that we get a contract. :rolleyes:

Look, it's really not you guys that are putting any more pressure on management... if anything, it's this hypothetical Delta pressure via the purchase to get a deal done.

I hope you guys remember all these things about "not supporting picketing" and "give it time" when the company walks away from the negotiating table in June.

Are we going to picket then? Oh wait... there's no "bad image" to be had in June because it's not like it's a peak holiday travel season.

To borrow a hilarious line that I've seen from the NWA/Delta deal, and this is really just tongue in cheek.... "hired, not acquired" ;)

We can smack you in the face with the evidence that proves that Pinnacle Corp is just blowing smoke, but you'll apparently never listen.

And my final thought: the Pinnacle Reps have been on a short leash around here for a long time... consider Mesaba and Colgan's Union reps put on notice that they're on a very short leash. There are 1250 of us who will be able to vote for joint union leadership in bases. Right now, my "no" vote is prepared to be cast for anyone who rejected the picketing idea. With such an emotional issue, I'll bet I can get a lot of people to go along with a no-vote for any former Mesaba rep. Once the contract is settled, I might even be inclined for a member of the NMFC, because hey, while they're not about the junior guy, at least they're Pinnacle.

A no vote just because someone thought it was a bad time for informational picketing.............interesting.

I want leaders that know how to get things done, not appease an angry, emotional, rudderless pilot group.

Well said!

I was kind of hoping you would see just a little bit more into it. When we started in sept we were all being told we were using the best of all 3 companies and TA1 but we still didnt officially have any of those things TA'd for the joint cba and we really were starting from scratch. We are now at a point that essentially took you guys 5 years to get to.

Are there any improvements in the current deal over what you had in TA1. Assuming they don't reopen anything that is ta'd and change it of course.

And CAL and XJT backing you for the walk is nice but you can't compare that to XJ and 9L. We are directly involved in what is going on. I'll take the word of the guys on the front lines over someone who isn't involved anyday.

Don't things seem different now? Or are they still not allowing your guys to the table and we just haven't heard about it? They seem to be willing to come to the table 4-5+ days a week now which is a lot more than they showed you(i know the mediator hampered things). I do agree about that somewhat bloated break for thanksgiving. I get that the MEC's were tired and put in some really long days, but a few weeks seemed excessive.

The by the end of the week was a "hoped for" kind of thing. It wasn't an official deadline.