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Originally Posted by CAPTAINPCL
(Post 892955)
The problem with dual qual is that it touches almost all parts of the contract. So even if we do get a good contract with the JCBA, dual qual can darken the waters.
I don't know what the right answers are as far as what we should get in return, but rest assured, PNCL management is going to want Dual Qual!!! |
Want and get are two different words. Make all pay rates to reflect 900 pay rates. If it all pays the same who cares except for the senior 900 Capt. who couldn't lower themselves to fly the 200. If they want dual qualified I agree make them pay for it. It will still save them money in the long run.
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Dual qual hasn't come up...yet... That is "pay to play" in the eyes of most. For the Q/900 vs. Q/200 pay this is one time where I gotta say that it's a "next deal" issue. To my understanding the rates ARE seperate in proposals but ARE the same numbers. This would be a huge negotiating hurdle to clear when already trying to bring up 3 groups with colgan going from no contract to a multi-generation contract. Before anyone says "that sells out colgan!" I would like to remind you that all the rates are the new PNCL Corp rates for all. When the dust settles we will all surely have our "home" group but we are all getting these rates. The only higher prop rates in the Q (as I have been told, admittedly I haven't had time to sit down and go through every prop rate in detail) is horizon... Their TA has arbitrated rates that aren't even arbitrated yet. The props as a whole and deal as a whole (with what's proposed and sections TA'd) is good. Take a look at the -200 rates and compare them to what colgan individually was shooting for... Let me know how you feel after that. Would I like to see the Q pay at 900 rates? Of course, just as I would like a minimum of 14 days off... But it's a step in the right direction. Down the line I DO feel you will see the Q pay more than the 50 seat jet, but not on this deal.
It may be flamebait, but that's a mix of what I know and the emotions behind it. |
Originally Posted by Will
(Post 892961)
Want and get are two different words. Make all pay rates to reflect 900 pay rates. If it all pays the same who cares except for the senior 900 Capt. who couldn't lower themselves to fly the 200. If they want dual qualified I agree make them pay for it. It will still save them money in the long run.
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Originally Posted by higney85
(Post 892968)
Dual qual hasn't come up...yet... n
Higney, what have you been hearing from within? Maybe its just me, but I am just waiting for the e-mails that start off with, "Progress has been made, however the company is unwilling to blah blah blah..." |
Originally Posted by CAPTAINPCL
(Post 892973)
"YET" is the key word...
Higney, what have you been hearing from within? Maybe its just me, but I am just waiting for the e-mails that start off with, "Progress has been made, however the company is unwilling to blah blah blah..." |
Originally Posted by Bartok
(Post 891924)
No fences.
Why would we want to voluntarily fence our opportunities? With fences come dues assessments, limited abilities, and overall a real mess. There is really no good reason for fences. They might make a few pilots feel good; however in the end, fences will be bad for the MAJORITY of the pilots in our new group. |
Originally Posted by Bartok
(Post 892918)
Because it's a turboprop, and everyone knows jet drivers are better pilots and should be compensated better.
Originally Posted by jeeps
(Post 892952)
hell yes!:D
Yes, the above is sarcasm.....much like I assume Bartok's statement was as well. The Q should pay out at 900 rates (or more)....we move just as many people at 1/3 the fuel burn. It's a much more efficient means of getting from A to B which = more profits. Time to share those gains w/ the people making it happen....yep, the lowly T-prop driver. And, the Q has it's own pay rate in the JCBA; for now, however, that rate equals the 200. Like Higney said, one step at a time. Having the Q on it's own pay rate column is a big step towards moving in the right direction. Next round, we can move the Q off the 200 rates. |
Originally Posted by Cruise
(Post 893092)
Yeah, I can't believe they pay me to fly it. It's so easy it practically flies itself. I think we should be paid piston rates.....after all, everyone knows props are lame.
Yes, the above is sarcasm.....much like I assume Bartok's statement was as well. The Q should pay out at 900 rates (or more)....we move just as many people at 1/3 the fuel burn. It's a much more efficient means of getting from A to B which = more profits. Time to share those gains w/ the people making it happen....yep, the lowly T-prop driver. And, the Q has it's own pay rate in the JCBA; for now, however, that rate equals the 200. Like Higney said, one step at a time. Having the Q on it's own pay rate column is a big step towards moving in the right direction. Next round, we can move the Q off the 200 rates. On the plus side maybe this will boost our -200 rates some. |
Originally Posted by higney85
(Post 892968)
Dual qual hasn't come up...yet... That is "pay to play" in the eyes of most. For the Q/900 vs. Q/200 pay this is one time where I gotta say that it's a "next deal" issue. To my understanding the rates ARE seperate in proposals but ARE the same numbers. This would be a huge negotiating hurdle to clear when already trying to bring up 3 groups with colgan going from no contract to a multi-generation contract. Before anyone says "that sells out colgan!" I would like to remind you that all the rates are the new PNCL Corp rates for all. When the dust settles we will all surely have our "home" group but we are all getting these rates. The only higher prop rates in the Q (as I have been told, admittedly I haven't had time to sit down and go through every prop rate in detail) is horizon... Their TA has arbitrated rates that aren't even arbitrated yet. The props as a whole and deal as a whole (with what's proposed and sections TA'd) is good. Take a look at the -200 rates and compare them to what colgan individually was shooting for... Let me know how you feel after that. Would I like to see the Q pay at 900 rates? Of course, just as I would like a minimum of 14 days off... But it's a step in the right direction. Down the line I DO feel you will see the Q pay more than the 50 seat jet, but not on this deal.
It may be flamebait, but that's a mix of what I know and the emotions behind it. |
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