Pinnacle Corp didn't buy southwest. It's all in the details.

And with an attitude like this we are all doomed to the crapiness that is Pinnacle to continue in their ways. Do all you Union types over there have this defeatist attitude?

Higney is actually one of the more militant members. You wouldn't believe how pervasive it is over here.

Seriously??? That is your response? I am glad you ARE NOT my status rep. We need a rep who isn't brain dead and can do some critical thinking and actually knows what to shoot for and what we are able to gain as a pinnacle/colgan/mesba pilot group and not as a southwest pilot group. Anyone who thinks we can go for the southwest contract here is off their rocker. Do you really think we can push that to the company and tell them take it or leave it? The company will say leave it, we go to the nmb, and they laugh at us and say thats bad faith bargaining, and then put us on ice for a couple years. Thanks higney for being smarter than that.

So why don't we just tell management to give us whatever they feel is fair and thank them for thier kindness.:rolleyes:

We just need to shoot for what we can reasonably obtain or what we THINK the nmb will say we should expect to reasonably obtain. You go to the nmb (because thats where we would have to go with it since the company isn't going to give it to us) and tell them we want southwests or deltas contract and they will give us a year or so to think about our negotiating strategy. We have to give the nmb an apples to apples comparison if we want them to even look at us. Otherwise we will just be wasting our time.

I have a question for the PNCL pilots. Your MEC that approved the TA are they still around? Or did they resign or get voted out? What's going to stop them from sending out another POS TA to vote on?

There has been considerable MEC turnover. Without going through individual circumstances the MEM voting reps are "new" from the last round, MSP is half new, DTW and ATL remains. Of MEC officers there has been a "new" ViceChair. Nobody has a "defeatist" attitude, we have an attitude of improving the pay, benefits, and QOL of all our pilots. Pay compared to the industry needs to go up (hence the mindset of no pay cuts), having PCL healthcare (best in the ENTIRE aviation industry), and MSA 401k (highest top end match) the "pay and benefits" are nothing to snicker at. The scheduling and QOL provisions that we are going for would be big improvements for all. Sure, it may only end up with 11 days off as a minimum but it's a good first step. More days off and higher pay is great to compare with "the majors" and "southwest" but how will you pay for it? Millions vs. Billions in profits creates a difference of what is realistic to achieve and go for. We could stomp our feet for years for 14 days off, but if it never happens (we aren't even in section 6 negotiations in JCBA negotiations) what's the point. To look at the MEC during the last TA vote you had 5 years of pilots telling reps "let me vote and make a decision", you had reps who just wanted it done, and you had reps that said "No". In the end the majority of pilots said "NO" and there is no point in putting something to the pilots that would result in the same, or possibly voted in due to Stockholm syndrome or contract fatigue.

" Sure, it may only end up with 11 days off as a minimum but it's a good first step"

I understand what your saying but you have to understand that at MSA we already have 11 days off. I hope we get your vacation and healthcare. I just hope we see some improvements, from talking to the some reps they have an attitude that lets not ask for to much. I hope I'm wrong.

I can tell you now that there are pilots at Colgan that will vote this down if the Q400 rates are the same as the 200 rates. In the end, Colgan employees are going to get Mesaba's contract at the minimum. It would be unfortunate if the combined contract gets turned down because we were stupid in negotiating a fair rate close to the 900.