Originally Posted by yamahas3 (Post 912556)

That min-day thing is ridiculous. At the heart of it, it just means you can bid your way into a better paying schedule. That means that its one more item which seniority allows for higher pay/better QOL.

Pinnacle already has a severe problem with the QOL and pay for senior vs junior. Its like working at two entirely different airlines, and many of those who work there don't realize its not like that everywhere else. At most regionals, the junior guys don't get 8 days off a month while the senior get 20.

This is just another attempt by the senior folks, who will all be flying jets, to get more pay while selling out the junior pilots, who will all end up on the turboprops. You guys need to be doing work to bring the two ends together, not push them apart.

Senior vs junior should have some benefits to bidding and such, but it shouldn't make it look like you work for two entirely different airlines.

Originally Posted by jayray2 (Post 912571)

Aren't most airlines like this? At XJ it is all weekends off, all holidays off with 20 days off verses 11 days off. Pretty close.

Originally Posted by yamahas3 (Post 912556)

That min-day thing is ridiculous. At the heart of it, it just means you can bid your way into a better paying schedule. That means that its one more item which seniority allows for higher pay/better QOL.

Pinnacle already has a severe problem with the QOL and pay for senior vs junior. Its like working at two entirely different airlines, and many of those who work there don't realize its not like that everywhere else. At most regionals, the junior guys don't get 8 days off a month while the senior get 20.

This is just another attempt by the senior folks, who will all be flying jets, to get more pay while selling out the junior pilots, who will all end up on the turboprops. You guys need to be doing work to bring the two ends together, not push them apart.

Senior vs junior should have some benefits to bidding and such, but it shouldn't make it look like you work for two entirely different airlines.

Originally Posted by PapaMike (Post 912615)

Any FO at any of the airlines needs to understand that it's not Colgan that won't get min day but rather the new mesaba. Any any upgrades that come your way to get left seat on a q or a saab would mean you former 9E and XJ FO's now would get no min day. This isn't a colgan, pinnacle or mesaba thing. Everyone at all three parties will feel the effect of every detail in this contract.

Originally Posted by vtx531 (Post 912576)

Yea.... PBS sucks

but 8 days off is not "pretty close" to 11.

Originally Posted by Pinchanickled (Post 912004)

PAPA MIKE aka PINNACLE MANAGEMENT:



Here's some reasons why Pinnacle Pilots HATE management:

Scheduling an 8 hour reduced rest overnight is another accident waiting to happen. When you have 8 hours in Toronto which requires clearing customs both ways to and from the hotel, at a huge airport, you only get 5 hours of sleep. Then when the next day you call in fatigue you get called in for a "fact finding meeting." You are told it's no big deal, but when you sit down and they record everything you say on a tape recorder in front of 2-3 managers, that's very scary. You feel like your job is on the line. This creates pressure to never call in fatigue.

When the phone rings continuously from scheduling on your day off to junior assign you, it's demorilizing. Sometimes a family member might answer the phone accidently and then you have to go into work on your day off. If you refuse.... then you have to come in for a fact finding meeting again. Why? Because you were ABSENT ON YOUR DAY OFF!!

Buddy passes are not honored. It says it in black and white in the CBA that the pilots will get buddy pass privileges on company Pinnacle aircraft. What has the company done to make up for that? Nothing. They don't care.

We are professionals. But yet treated as middle schoolers who must have a doctors note everytime we call in sick. How rediculous is that! Management needs to discipline the sick call abusers who have created a name for themselves. They know who they are, deal with them and them alone! If a pilot has 4 sick calls in a year, then deal with that person in a professional caring manner. If a pilot calls in sick once in two years, don't make them bring a doctors note it just infuriates them to no end.

Management wont hardly ever come to the crew rooms to talk to us. But when we do run into them, they dont have the guts to face the tough issues. They are cowards.

Committment to communication is as joke. Chatauqua pilots get daily updates from their CEO through an email system. Pinnacle pilots used to get a weekly memo from Phil T. Now it's a monthly message. Check the website to see when the last message is dated.

When you call scheduling to tell them your wife and kids are sick and can't come to work, they ask if you are sick or healthy. You try to show integrity and tell them that you are healthy, but need to care for your family. They mistrip you! It happened to me.

Phil Trenary comes out on thanksgiving and christmas to promote working on the holidays. But he only stays long enough to get his picture taken and then drives back home to be with his family. True!

Overall management is rude and detached from the pilot group.

Our pilots are the frontline managers who are getting flights out ontime day to day. They are so professional to continue this, yet management keeps dumping on them.

Who is our chief pilot?
When was the last time he held a pilot meeting?
Does he keep line currency?


From what I heard, Phil Trenary was an awesome CEO back in the late 90's. Now that he's had his hand in the company cookie jar bank account and taken millions, he's become spoiled. He's become so spoiled he is now lazy. He is an amazing magician who pretends to work hard and charms people with his smile and ability to read somebody's name tag as if he remembered it on his own merit. But what has he done? Not much, just takes stock options, bonuses and a large salary.

Pinnacle Pilots don't want to make more than industry average. But we do want to get treated like humans. Which means, adequate sleep, and reasonable duty days and in general following the golden rule.

Papa Mike: You must not be a regular line pilot who is current. If you walked a mile in our mocassins today, you would totally understand why our morale is totally beat down.

Originally Posted by jayray2 (Post 912690)

You consistently get 8 days off without getting comp days in return?

Originally Posted by Pinchanickled (Post 912004)

PAPA MIKE aka PINNACLE MANAGEMENT:

You don't get it. You really don't.

We elected people who would negotiate a fair contract. Those men went in to negotiate a FAIR contract. We don't want an industry leading contract. Just a fair one. We also want a safe contract equally.

Here's some reasons why Pinnacle Pilots HATE management:

Scheduling an 8 hour reduced rest overnight is another accident waiting to happen. When you have 8 hours in Toronto which requires clearing customs both ways to and from the hotel, at a huge airport, you only get 5 hours of sleep. Then when the next day you call in fatigue you get called in for a "fact finding meeting." You are told it's no big deal, but when you sit down and they record everything you say on a tape recorder in front of 2-3 managers, that's very scary. You feel like your job is on the line. This creates pressure to never call in fatigue.

When the phone rings continuously from scheduling on your day off to junior assign you, it's demorilizing. Sometimes a family member might answer the phone accidently and then you have to go into work on your day off. If you refuse.... then you have to come in for a fact finding meeting again. Why? Because you were ABSENT ON YOUR DAY OFF!!

Buddy passes are not honored. It says it in black and white in the CBA that the pilots will get buddy pass privileges on company Pinnacle aircraft. What has the company done to make up for that? Nothing. They don't care.

We are professionals. But yet treated as middle schoolers who must have a doctors note everytime we call in sick. How rediculous is that! Management needs to discipline the sick call abusers who have created a name for themselves. They know who they are, deal with them and them alone! If a pilot has 4 sick calls in a year, then deal with that person in a professional caring manner. If a pilot calls in sick once in two years, don't make them bring a doctors note it just infuriates them to no end.

Management wont hardly ever come to the crew rooms to talk to us. But when we do run into them, they dont have the guts to face the tough issues. They are cowards.

Committment to communication is as joke. Chatauqua pilots get daily updates from their CEO through an email system. Pinnacle pilots used to get a weekly memo from Phil T. Now it's a monthly message. Check the website to see when the last message is dated.

When you call scheduling to tell them your wife and kids are sick and can't come to work, they ask if you are sick or healthy. You try to show integrity and tell them that you are healthy, but need to care for your family. They mistrip you! It happened to me.

Phil Trenary comes out on thanksgiving and christmas to promote working on the holidays. But he only stays long enough to get his picture taken and then drives back home to be with his family. True!

Overall management is rude and detached from the pilot group.

Our pilots are the frontline managers who are getting flights out ontime day to day. They are so professional to continue this, yet management keeps dumping on them.

Who is our chief pilot?
When was the last time he held a pilot meeting?
Does he keep line currency?


From what I heard, Phil Trenary was an awesome CEO back in the late 90's. Now that he's had his hand in the company cookie jar bank account and taken millions, he's become spoiled. He's become so spoiled he is now lazy. He is an amazing magician who pretends to work hard and charms people with his smile and ability to read somebody's name tag as if he remembered it on his own merit. But what has he done? Not much, just takes stock options, bonuses and a large salary.

Pinnacle Pilots don't want to make more than industry average. But we do want to get treated like humans. Which means, adequate sleep, and reasonable duty days and in general following the golden rule.

Papa Mike: You must not be a regular line pilot who is current. If you walked a mile in our mocassins today, you would totally understand why our morale is totally beat down.