The New Pinnacle...
09-20-2010, 09:18 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,201
Originally Posted by typical41
section 3 - you will have to take a look at the pay for yourself...just keep in mind this though...Mesaba has a 4% raise coming on Dec 1 of this year 2010.
When those new pay rates go into effect...Fo's (all fo's payed the same rate whether on prop or jet) will start at 25.97, 31.14, 34.19....year7-8 is 41.90 tops. Ca's for a 200 start at 61.14 yr 1....yr 2 62.98,64.88....year 17-18 is 101.06 tops. Ca's for a 900 start at 65.48,67.46,69.48....year 17-18 is 104.24 tops. Bottom line....FO pay is terrible(for a lot of reasons in the past, but it is just not good), Ca pay is better but still needs to be increased.
I only hope that pilots of all 3 groups realize that the company is looking at paying us based on mesaba's 'current' rates which are only a couple of months from receiving a 4% pay increase. This is one reason the company wants this done so quickly. Just giving you a heads up.
When those new pay rates go into effect...Fo's (all fo's payed the same rate whether on prop or jet) will start at 25.97, 31.14, 34.19....year7-8 is 41.90 tops. Ca's for a 200 start at 61.14 yr 1....yr 2 62.98,64.88....year 17-18 is 101.06 tops. Ca's for a 900 start at 65.48,67.46,69.48....year 17-18 is 104.24 tops. Bottom line....FO pay is terrible(for a lot of reasons in the past, but it is just not good), Ca pay is better but still needs to be increased.
I only hope that pilots of all 3 groups realize that the company is looking at paying us based on mesaba's 'current' rates which are only a couple of months from receiving a 4% pay increase. This is one reason the company wants this done so quickly. Just giving you a heads up.
other section 3 stuff....block or better, min pay per day is 4 hrs, cdo pay is min of 4 hrs, taxi repositions = 12 min pay, trip guarentee pay, monthly guarentee pay is at 75 hrs for rsv and line holders, Rsv's only get paid higher than 75 if you credit over 75, get junior manned, or pick up ot; all of which goes on top of 75. drug test pay is 30 mintues of pay, customs pay is 18 min of pay, premium pay is for OT and junior manning which is 1.5X your pay rate. premium pay can be taken away by payroll if you call in sick at anytime within the same bid period you received premium pay for picking up OT.
Other contract stuff that I am sick of catagorizing by section....
-only 50% pay of deadheads
-per diem is currently at 1.55 BUT on Dec 1st we will be at 1.65 (all very very low)
-rsv's will not be called once you hit 70 hrs of credit, they will only call you if there are no other pilots available.
-dec 31st of each year all pilots receive 235 dollar checks (supposed to be used for uniforms)(effective dec 31st 2010)
-training hotel buyout options...if you don't use a hotel provided by training, you can get paid 50% of what the company pays
-min day pay is 4 hrs(so for the most part, even if you pick up a trip for ot that is only worth 2 hrs of flying or credit, you will get paid 6 hrs on top of your gaurentee.) (4 hr min day pay * 1.5 premium factor = 6 hrs pay)
-lots of cdo scheduling provisions (some are good, and some hurt you)
-11 days min days off a month(can go to 10 if you pick up ot, but NEVER less than 10 even if you want to so you can pick up a trip)
-new hires receive their own hotel room (no dual occupancy rooms)
-new hires uniforms are paid 50% by company
-1 week vacation can be used as 5 individual pvd's
-lots of stuff regarding moving expenses paid for when displaced involuntarily.
-company only pays for parking in current pilot domiciles, even if where you live is cheaper
-no duty/trip rigs....but we do have the min day pay
-sick bank accrues at 2.5 hrs a month
-we have pbs and it sucks
-we have no automated trip trade
-we have no way to determine rsv coverage per day...so scheduling could do whatever they want and most of the time get away with it.
if you want to know more, i think someone posted a link to mesaba's contract...just thought this would pull out some of the most often asked about areas...just ask if you have more questions.
One thing I did want to point out though was how i would not be surprised if one of the reason's this company wants a contract so fast(before dec 1st of this year) is b.c. of mesaba's 4% raise which is coming this dec 1st. What a great way to get around it...negotiate rates before the 4%raise. same goes for our uniform pay and per diem.
-only 50% pay of deadheads
-per diem is currently at 1.55 BUT on Dec 1st we will be at 1.65 (all very very low)
-rsv's will not be called once you hit 70 hrs of credit, they will only call you if there are no other pilots available.
-dec 31st of each year all pilots receive 235 dollar checks (supposed to be used for uniforms)(effective dec 31st 2010)
-training hotel buyout options...if you don't use a hotel provided by training, you can get paid 50% of what the company pays
-min day pay is 4 hrs(so for the most part, even if you pick up a trip for ot that is only worth 2 hrs of flying or credit, you will get paid 6 hrs on top of your gaurentee.) (4 hr min day pay * 1.5 premium factor = 6 hrs pay)
-lots of cdo scheduling provisions (some are good, and some hurt you)
-11 days min days off a month(can go to 10 if you pick up ot, but NEVER less than 10 even if you want to so you can pick up a trip)
-new hires receive their own hotel room (no dual occupancy rooms)
-new hires uniforms are paid 50% by company
-1 week vacation can be used as 5 individual pvd's
-lots of stuff regarding moving expenses paid for when displaced involuntarily.
-company only pays for parking in current pilot domiciles, even if where you live is cheaper
-no duty/trip rigs....but we do have the min day pay
-sick bank accrues at 2.5 hrs a month
-we have pbs and it sucks
-we have no automated trip trade
-we have no way to determine rsv coverage per day...so scheduling could do whatever they want and most of the time get away with it.
if you want to know more, i think someone posted a link to mesaba's contract...just thought this would pull out some of the most often asked about areas...just ask if you have more questions.
One thing I did want to point out though was how i would not be surprised if one of the reason's this company wants a contract so fast(before dec 1st of this year) is b.c. of mesaba's 4% raise which is coming this dec 1st. What a great way to get around it...negotiate rates before the 4%raise. same goes for our uniform pay and per diem.
09-20-2010, 11:36 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Originally Posted by typical41
I only hope that pilots of all 3 groups realize that the company is looking at paying us based on mesaba's 'current' rates which are only a couple of months from receiving a 4% pay increase. This is one reason the company wants this done so quickly. Just giving you a heads up.
09-20-2010, 11:48 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by higney85
Well, if none of the reps would vote in favor it would never pass... It's not just money- there are serious language gaps. Look at the 9E TA at almost 400 pages, XJ's is around 100 I believe. No matter how you want to argue it, it's water under the bridge as we are working on the JCBA.
Also, no one at XJ really thinks they are better than their counterparts at 9E. Whoever is on here talking about 9E bought XJ and that they saved us can go shove it. If you want to get the best contract for all, that is not they way to go about it. If XJ guys really wanted to be pruicks, we wouldn't negotiate at all and continue to make more than any of 9E and Colgan. We can drag this out as long as possible and neither Colgan or 9E would get a TA either.
The more we fight amongst ourselves, the worse contract we are going to have. XJ has a lot of pride and support for our MEC. Just look at the concessionary deal we have compared to the 9E current contract and the Colgan current practices.
09-20-2010, 11:49 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,082
Originally Posted by bored
SE - good points, I'm just a little bitter at the moment. I'm still skeptical though. The 25% and 12.5% comments were made by MN and JM at one point but I can't remember the venue.
Flyjsh - today, we are at DOS +3, on December 1 we'll be at DOS +4. For pay, per diem, uniforms and PBS you have to look at the LOA23 which is what was signed during bankruptcy. Everything else, is intact and is found in the rest of the contract.
Cencal - bid packs come out the Thursday before the 14th of each month. It could be the first, it could be the second. Bidding starts at that time and closes the Monday morning after. That Friday PBS lines are published. That weekend you can request INV days (golden days) or PVD days (personal vacation days). On Tuesday, the schedules are published with those on them. They're loaded into crewtrac after the FAs are done with their bidding later in the month, but schedules are published within the PBS system and on mymesaba for viewing. With PBS we get our final schedules about a week earlier than we used to. People complain about PBS but IMO, it's not that bad. I wish we had our build-ups back, but we can't have everything right?
Higney - this isn't my first rodeo. I know how the process works.
Flyjsh - today, we are at DOS +3, on December 1 we'll be at DOS +4. For pay, per diem, uniforms and PBS you have to look at the LOA23 which is what was signed during bankruptcy. Everything else, is intact and is found in the rest of the contract.
Cencal - bid packs come out the Thursday before the 14th of each month. It could be the first, it could be the second. Bidding starts at that time and closes the Monday morning after. That Friday PBS lines are published. That weekend you can request INV days (golden days) or PVD days (personal vacation days). On Tuesday, the schedules are published with those on them. They're loaded into crewtrac after the FAs are done with their bidding later in the month, but schedules are published within the PBS system and on mymesaba for viewing. With PBS we get our final schedules about a week earlier than we used to. People complain about PBS but IMO, it's not that bad. I wish we had our build-ups back, but we can't have everything right?
Higney - this isn't my first rodeo. I know how the process works.
Nope, can't have everything but I am a guaranteed HELL NO vote without getting build up reserve pay style restored. I don't appreciate working for free.
09-20-2010, 12:41 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Originally Posted by indapit
If XJ guys really wanted to be pruicks, we wouldn't negotiate at all and continue to make more than any of 9E and Colgan. We can drag this out as long as possible and neither Colgan or 9E would get a TA either
09-20-2010, 01:01 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: CRJ-200 FO
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Airsupport
All that would do is continue to shrink the mesaba pilot group. They will still park the Saab's and mesaba pilots would continue to lose their jobs. Don't act like you are doing the 9e pilots a favor. We are in this together. We arent helping you and you aren't helping us. Its one pilot group now. The sooner all three pilot groups realize this the sooner we can wrap this up and carry on.
09-20-2010, 01:05 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 175
Here is a list of some possible contract increases that Mesaba pilots have been looking to secure....
-Duty/Trip Rigs
-Min 12 Days off
-build up lines as they were when we line bid
-100% Deadhead pay
-significant perdiem increases...up to 1.90 or 2.00
-Increases above our slated dec 1st 2010 pay rates
-Restructured FO pay bands (This would be considered in the pay increases above)
-locked in premium pay(so that calling in sick in same month, won't wipe out your premium pay)
-No PM ready rsv on last day
-no more than 5 hrs on ready rsv (all of which is paid at full credit)
-A more transparent rerserve and staffing model(able to see rsv coverage, who is on rsv, how many below/above,who is flying on rsv so we can see their trip/pattern....etc
-auto trip trade with opentime and pilots
-either crew meals or gaurenteed meals at hotels in morning following an overnight
-At the end date of the contract, if no new contract is in place, a minimun of 1.5 to 2% pay increase every year, along with a .05 cent pay bump on perdiem
-Increase sick time accrual
-leg by leg gaurentee instead of trip gaurentee
I am not saying we will/are seeking ALL of these, this is simply a list of areas that Mesaba pilots have expressed interest in improving. Feel free to add more, all I did was copy paste what some others have written. Perhaps some colgan and pinnacle pilots can chime in on if some of what is listed above is already in your contract or a previous proposed TA.
-Duty/Trip Rigs
-Min 12 Days off
-build up lines as they were when we line bid
-100% Deadhead pay
-significant perdiem increases...up to 1.90 or 2.00
-Increases above our slated dec 1st 2010 pay rates
-Restructured FO pay bands (This would be considered in the pay increases above)
-locked in premium pay(so that calling in sick in same month, won't wipe out your premium pay)
-No PM ready rsv on last day
-no more than 5 hrs on ready rsv (all of which is paid at full credit)
-A more transparent rerserve and staffing model(able to see rsv coverage, who is on rsv, how many below/above,who is flying on rsv so we can see their trip/pattern....etc
-auto trip trade with opentime and pilots
-either crew meals or gaurenteed meals at hotels in morning following an overnight
-At the end date of the contract, if no new contract is in place, a minimun of 1.5 to 2% pay increase every year, along with a .05 cent pay bump on perdiem
-Increase sick time accrual
-leg by leg gaurentee instead of trip gaurentee
I am not saying we will/are seeking ALL of these, this is simply a list of areas that Mesaba pilots have expressed interest in improving. Feel free to add more, all I did was copy paste what some others have written. Perhaps some colgan and pinnacle pilots can chime in on if some of what is listed above is already in your contract or a previous proposed TA.
09-20-2010, 02:31 PM
#68
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by jayray2
I don't really think anyone knows what is motivating the company. This could be among one of the motivations to get something hammered out. However for them to think our Union is so stupid that if they sign a contract in November verses January it will save Pinnacle Incorporated a 4% raise for pilots, I hope they are giving us a little more credit. If Pinnacle is that simple minded then I would be feeling good about these negotiations.
09-20-2010, 02:45 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 73N
Posts: 859
Originally Posted by typical41
Here is a list of some possible contract increases that Mesaba pilots have been looking to secure....
-Duty/Trip Rigs
-Min 12 Days off
-build up lines as they were when we line bid
-100% Deadhead pay
-significant perdiem increases...up to 1.90 or 2.00
-Increases above our slated dec 1st 2010 pay rates
-Restructured FO pay bands (This would be considered in the pay increases above)
-locked in premium pay(so that calling in sick in same month, won't wipe out your premium pay)
-No PM ready rsv on last day
-no more than 5 hrs on ready rsv (all of which is paid at full credit)
-A more transparent rerserve and staffing model(able to see rsv coverage, who is on rsv, how many below/above,who is flying on rsv so we can see their trip/pattern....etc
-auto trip trade with opentime and pilots
-either crew meals or gaurenteed meals at hotels in morning following an overnight
-At the end date of the contract, if no new contract is in place, a minimun of 1.5 to 2% pay increase every year, along with a .05 cent pay bump on perdiem
-Increase sick time accrual
-leg by leg gaurentee instead of trip gaurentee
I am not saying we will/are seeking ALL of these, this is simply a list of areas that Mesaba pilots have expressed interest in improving. Feel free to add more, all I did was copy paste what some others have written. Perhaps some colgan and pinnacle pilots can chime in on if some of what is listed above is already in your contract or a previous proposed TA.
-Duty/Trip Rigs
-Min 12 Days off
-build up lines as they were when we line bid
-100% Deadhead pay
-significant perdiem increases...up to 1.90 or 2.00
-Increases above our slated dec 1st 2010 pay rates
-Restructured FO pay bands (This would be considered in the pay increases above)
-locked in premium pay(so that calling in sick in same month, won't wipe out your premium pay)
-No PM ready rsv on last day
-no more than 5 hrs on ready rsv (all of which is paid at full credit)
-A more transparent rerserve and staffing model(able to see rsv coverage, who is on rsv, how many below/above,who is flying on rsv so we can see their trip/pattern....etc
-auto trip trade with opentime and pilots
-either crew meals or gaurenteed meals at hotels in morning following an overnight
-At the end date of the contract, if no new contract is in place, a minimun of 1.5 to 2% pay increase every year, along with a .05 cent pay bump on perdiem
-Increase sick time accrual
-leg by leg gaurentee instead of trip gaurentee
I am not saying we will/are seeking ALL of these, this is simply a list of areas that Mesaba pilots have expressed interest in improving. Feel free to add more, all I did was copy paste what some others have written. Perhaps some colgan and pinnacle pilots can chime in on if some of what is listed above is already in your contract or a previous proposed TA.
09-20-2010, 02:55 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 73N
Posts: 859
How about a list like this...
Industry average plus $1 pay
Trip/duty rigs & min day
Trip guarantee
100 % cancel and deadhead pay
Reasonable healthcare
401k matching at least 4% starting
150% pickups from open time
A commuter clause in the contract not the fom (from xj)
Limitations/hard pay for ready reserve
Long call/ short call hotel (this will be very important with new rest rules)
This is off the top of my head but its a good starting point for ME personally.
Industry average plus $1 pay
Trip/duty rigs & min day
Trip guarantee
100 % cancel and deadhead pay
Reasonable healthcare
401k matching at least 4% starting
150% pickups from open time
A commuter clause in the contract not the fom (from xj)
Limitations/hard pay for ready reserve
Long call/ short call hotel (this will be very important with new rest rules)
This is off the top of my head but its a good starting point for ME personally.
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