I think the point is that it's either going to be PBS or line bidding, one or the other. I guess you can come up with something in between but it'll be more like line bidding than PBS in that case.

Also, as far as reserves, they'll staff the airline based on the ratified joint contract. Sure, they can short staff the airline but they can do that with whatever bidding system prevails.

 

The 2 day trips will be there and will be awarded in seniority order via PBS. All of those golden trips that senior crewmembers get and then have dropped due to conflict at XJT will be awarded at ASA via PBS because the senior crewmember can't bid on any conflicting pairings. So really, many people won't have to trade trips after schedules come out because they will have been awarded the trips they really want by PBS.

 

Ok, that spurns another question. Non ATL based pilot has PC, PBS won't award a trip on a training date, is that correct?

If you'll forgive me to assume that it is, how is the pilot paid? Is there a min per day, or is it a training pay credit?

If an XJT pilot bids a 4 day, or a 2 day over the training event, the pilot will be protected for the trip value. So if they had to drop a high value 2 day worth 13-14 hours, pilot gets that 13-14 hours pay credit.

Edited to add;

As you say, under PBS the 2 day would not be given to the senior pilot due to conflict, so it goes to the next pilot down the list with the same preferences and no conflict. Under line bidding, a 4 day may be broken up, creating a 2 day that will be in the LIW. A junior pilot that could not hold either with PBS OR line bidding would now be able to grab those trips.

 

So do it.
In reality, arguing over whose contract is better is irrelevant. The JCBA CNC knows what they want to achieve and will work toward it. After that, we'll vote. I don't really see how message board politics changes that.

 

You are correct. We are now moving to AQP and after Feb, everyone on their annual PC will do AQP. That is a 4 day process which will end up being a 5 day at least for those that don't live where the sims are. You get min day for a day you only DH, then training is paid at 4 hours/day. The really sucky thing is this is preassigned activity therefore you cannot bid to conflict. Also, this 5 day ordeal is worth 19.86 hours. Something else that needs to be corrected.

 

Wow, I'm an idiot. I didn't even see what you guys were saying about conflicting trips! Sorry about that. But you are correct that PBS will not award a trip that conflicts with other events on your schedule and your ability to swap will be greatly reduced. You have to consider, though, that PBS is one giant initial open time pot where you are more likely to get what you want the first time around and not have to swap later. If PBS awards you a few 2 days and a few 4 days, you'll only have to worry about swapping a few trips instead of the whole month. If you were awarded a line under line bidding with ALL 4 days and tried to swap out with the conflict trips that dropped into open time, your success would be rather low because of ASA's "red arrow day" conflicts. I actually prefer the PBS conflict feature, and here is why:

I like to work Monday through Thursday commutable 4 days. Next month, I have AQP that runs Wednesday through Saturday. Had we still been using the line bidding system, I would have been awarded a 4 day on the same week that I have AQP. The Wednesday and Thursday portion would have dropped into open time, but I'd still be left with a 2 day on Monday and Tuesday which would have made for 6 days of work in a row. No thank you!

With PBS, I just elected to not bid ANY trips the week of my AQP. Now I work a 3 day Mon-Wed during the first week of February, and then don't go back to work until the following Wednesday for AQP. That gives me 6 days off that I would not have had under line bidding. After AQP, I resume my normal weekends off, commutable trips. I was able to get a 3 day starting Tuesday after AQP, so I have 2 days off between training and flying and still get 3 days off the following weekend. To clarify, my schedule is like this:

3 on, 6 off, 4 AQP, 2 off, 3 on, 3, off, 4 on, 3 off, 4 on

 

Under a line bid, if the guy got a couple 4 days and the rest 2 days, who says he wants to trade everything anyway? The LIW gives you ability to adjust/tweak your WHOLE schedule, or just tiny portions.

I'm not sure how many times we have to repeat this. The LIW is a fluid and dynamic thing. Guys are trading, dropping, and picking up CONSTANTLY. This also causes the coverage go from negative to positive, allowing MORE dropping. AGAIN, I'LL REPEAT IT. If it doesn't drop on the first attempt, just sit back and be patient, and try it again.

If the AQP is a 5 day event counting a position/DH, it would only work for IAH based pilots. XJT CAN'T build 5 day trips, against the CBA. Our company has recently run into this road block with our AQP program. A reserve pilot can be on a 4 day and be modified in to a 5 day, but that's a whole different deal. They can put a 3 day next to a 2 day, but thats a whole different deal as well. So a 5 day pairing is what they'll be for the non IAH based pilots. Also, XJT pilots can only do recurrent training what would have been normal work days, unless the pilot specifically requests otherwise. And if so, get's paid above guaranty for doing so.

 

Its not a 5 day event. Only 4. He was saying that they may DH you to the place where the sims are a day early. ASA can't build 5 day "trips" either, but nothing in there about it having to do with training. Does it specifically say they can't build 5 day ANYTHING at XJT?

 

And that would then make it a 5 day event, possible 6 depending on the sim slot. For the majority of XJT (non IAH based), that's what it will be.

Yes. Of course, it can be "modified", but it can't be built from the get go that way. When a pilot that is not IAH based and goes to upgrade training, of course he can then do the 5 days. But that's a different section. Again, our MEC/company are running into an issue as for a non IAH based pilot, the recurrent training event is considered a "pairing" for construction purposes.

 

The fact that conflicts get thrown into the ILIW is what gives our pilots flexibility. The guys that couldn't have held day trips and two days in the initial bid could now pick them up or trade for them. If we get stuck with a trip or more we don't like, we don't have to worry about our "ability to swap will being greatly reduced."

Also, circumstances may change from when you bid. Our system allows you the opportunity to make changes. Or to simply trade for a better trip if one is available in open time. Our equivalent of "red arrows" doesn't really come into consideration until the SLIW. And even then, we have BD/WD trading capabilities.

As for training, if you were bidding in your example of your training event, you would bid your normal Monday through Thursday line. After you are awarded that line, they would drop one of those trips and replace it with four days of training AND pay protect you for the value of the original trip and therefore protect the original line value of your awarded line.

I honestly don't see how your PBS is more flexible or better for us as it is now.

Nothing can be built to 5 days. I think they can build reserve line with more than 4 consecutive days of reserve. At XJT, they cannot force you to train on days off. So DH on the day before or after is the problem at XJT. We can volunteer to train on days of but its paid at 150%.