Originally Posted by 3stripes

As much as it pains me to say it I think we're heading towards a scenario where the majors will shrink even further while regionals and low cost carriers grow and take over the vast majority of domestic flying. The days of the 50 seat regional jet are numbered, but as a previous poster pointed out, the likes of Bombardier, Embraer, Mitsubishi etc are all driving growth in the 70-120 seat jet market.

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Mainline labor is not going to budge on scope in the forseeable future. For that to happen we need a major economic catastrophe to drive the majors back into BK so they can void their contracts again. That is somewhat less likely than a few years ago because the BK laws were actually changed, making it harder to survive the process. In 2005, the airline MBA flavor-of-the-week was a quick trip through the BK drive-through to shed those pesky obligations. We probably won't see that again until the airlines are really in bad shape.


There are actually good reasons why a void exists in the 100-seat market...regs require an FA for every 50 pax, rounded up. So a 110 seat airplane has the same labor requirement as a 150 seat airplane...at the point it doesn't cost much more to just stretch the fuselage and get the extra capacity. Also mainline pilots are not likely to fly 110 seaters for much less than 73 rates.

Originally Posted by bcpilot

The Southwest & Jetblue & airlines like those will continue to chip away at the market shares of all other airlines 1 day at a time. These airlines don't care that if everyone calls them LOW COST etc etc. Their model may be based upon low cost, but their service is 10 times better any United, Delta or AA flight.

The southwest's & Jetblue's are here to stay & will continue to Grow.......

I am not attempting to start a "my airline versus is better than your airline" war but for a momemt, just take a step back & think what a passenger, your source of revenue, thinks about the carrier he or she is flying.....

"Where or which airline do I get a better service, quality & fare advantage or a combination of all the above"

Guess what the answer is.........

So, the Legacy airlines soon, will have no choice but be forced to move focus to international flying as their major source of revenue.... And there also, it is fierce competition....
Has anyone travelled across the globe on AMERICAN AIRLINES or continental as a passenger then compares with QATAR or SINGAPORE OR EMIRATES & then .....
One has to pay for his 2nd beer or drink on a 14-15 hour flight on any Legacy american airlines......
Now remember, anyone who can buy a $1500 - $2000 ticket can also pay another $10 for a drink, but remember, we are comparing as a passenger who will leave with a bad taste & never return.......


Are our Legacy airlines really a LEGACY or are they ready to become HISTORY, just like PANAM..........

Legacy Airlines lack the vision, heavy with beauraucracy, are laden heavily with "baggage" & a lots of monkeys on their back, blindfolded by their glorious past & on a ILS CAT 3C approach to a uncontrolled, unlighted runway.....

When every airline in this country was losing money, Filing BK's, Southwest & FEDEX ( CARGO) were only two companies who made & reported profit..... Fedex is not our area, so for us southwest is important & will continue to be... Our Heavy weight majors like United DELTA & AA should learn a thing or 2 here....... BUt they are so blinded, that they won't pay attention.......


That is why Southwest who is already a major player will be the leader in the domestic slowly in the years come & closely followed by Jetblue... Others new players will continue to emerge in the domestic sector.......

It is a global trend. The same is happening in ASIA & INDIA.
Legacy Carriers Like Air INDIA are bleeding & losing money, pretty much because of the same reasons like United & Delta & at the expense of new carriers, who offer a better combination of value & service & fares.

And NO, I don't work for southwest but would love to do so......

Originally Posted by N5467C

Are you saying that senior pilots at the majors, know they are at the top of the list and not going anywhere, and will let outsourcing take place if they can squeeze even more money out of their company, Or are you saying that pilots will stand firm, and not let any more outsourcing take place or scope change?

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

I didn't say anything about senior or junior pilots. I said the majors; the pilots of companies that contract out flying.

I'm saying those pilots will vote with their pocketbook. That they will talk and talk, but when the ACTUAL deals are done, you'll find that overall, we will continue to see farming out of flying for cheaper labor in exchange for all the same things that have been used in the past.

Idealism has never paid the bills.

Originally Posted by dosbo

Everyone is beginning to realize if your career is outsourced the payscales don't matter

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Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

So, management says, "We'll give 90% of you a XX% pay raise so that we can furlough the bottom 10% and contract that flying out", my suggestion is the only question is, "How big is XX?".

Of that 90%, and assuming no 10% people would vote for it, what percentage of the remaining need to agree? 60%~ish.

Sorry, but the answer is XX.

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

What exactly are you talking about? If this is politics, it will be deleted.

Originally Posted by stbloc

I don't think 1500 rule will hold. Majors haven't even announce hiring and regional are starting to run thin on applicants. What will happen when majors start pulling pilots from the regional level? Delta will be on a steady pace of 500 new hires a year going forward along with US Air and others. At the pace of the major's projected numbers I feel you will see a shortage at the regional level. No way 1500 will hold up. If you think this spring was crazy you haven't see nothing yet.

Originally Posted by tuttle

Why? What's the harm? I guess free speech has taken a back seat.

This forum isn't what it once was. Too bad.