The ATP certificate is much more than 1500 hours. In fact I would bet a pilot who only flight instructs would not have the correct time to receive it. As for the shortage question, easy, fly bigger planes with less frequency. When the smallest thing serving most of the city pairs if a 737, there will be enough pilots.

 

Perfectly spoken by somebody who has never has one of those student try to kill them. You belittle something you knowthing about. Let me clue you into something. The reason there are 6 month and 1 year checks at 121 airlines is because some people make not practice or study enough to remain sharp enough for abnormal and emergency situations. I will bet you ANY amount of money that a former CFI will recognizge when a CA is about to fly them into the dirt before one of your 500 hour wonder kids.
They also have less trouble speaking up about somebody elses flying than 500 hour wonder new hires... and don't try to say otherwise, because we've seen it. Work in the industry long enough, and you'll be able to look back and see how wrong your posting really was.

 

I have heard that same crap since I started flying in the mid 80s.
There never has been a shortage and everytime there looks like one might be a possible shortage few yrs away, some black swan event happens. The only shortage in this country is of people willing to work for crap wages.

I have said it before and I 'll say it again. 1500 hrs used to be the defacto hiring minimum. Now the mins went down for a little while and the newbies scream about how unfair it is now that there is going to be a mandated minimum. Sheez.

 

your posting makes it painfully obvious to anybody in this profession that you haven't even botherd to look for any jobs. AEPS, climbto350, and tons of other places list unfilled job after unfilled job....

You're correct, there are less pilots than a few years ago... and perhaps a few less jobs, but most places are starving to find pilots. The 135 guys can't get pilots because the airlines are allowed to hire ink wet new kids, while they are required to hire people with at least some experience.

It's not a snide remark to make the observation that you really aren't interested in anythign else but an airline job, or you wouldn't have made the comment about there being no jobs, becuase there are more jobs than there are pilots.

Make your own business card, place a few ads on barnstormers and AOPA and get yourself some quality students. Visit a busier airport and slip your card in the door of all the twin's offering BFR and IPC's. Oh, one last thing - which also shows how little you actualy looked into the field - you would be surprised how far banner tow pilots take those things. One NJ are operator I know of goes from NY to Cape May NJ with fuel stops throughout the day at various airports.

stop whining, and start learning.

 

I don't really care whether the number is 1000, 1500, 2000, whatever, but as a relative new hire (who had just a bit over 1500), I don't think instructing alone is the best way to get there.

I learned considerably more about airline style flying from 135 than I did from instructing. I would hope people would instruct to get their 135 mins then find a 135 job...it's valuable experience and the best bet for multi time.

Just my opinion of course, and I'm sure somebody will jump all over me for not treating instructing like the holy grail.

 

I used to fly 135, flight instructing (same place) and fly banners in other place. I also had two students with their own plane.

As you said, flying 135 made me a better pilot, because you don't always fly in the best of weather. (Like CFIing a Student Pilot, which is only VFR and if is raining you just don't go). Also you are the one responsible for the whole operation. Going to fly without the tanks all the way filled.

Young people want to have a great job without working hard. That's the main problem. Because with that in mind they'll take whatever job to make TT, lowering the overall payment, doing it for free or even paying to get a job. For me, that's unacceptable!!!!!

 

Absolutely true! Add to that the FNG with 500 hours may not have the backbone to challenge a CA when things so south.

The toughest job is an FO because he needs to stand tall even if it puts his job at risk.

 

It's not the question of business plan. It's the question of mentality. As long as pilots view those hours in their logbook as "compensation", Roger Cohen can keep getting that fake tan and regular Botox shots.

Airlines could and do adjust... when they have to. They had to adjust with the rising fuel cost. You don't think they'd adjust if they simply couldn't recruit any more people for wages they're paying? Why do you think wages at foreign airlines keep going up?

 

I have to agree. Not to belittle instructing- I have learned a ton from the instructing I've done so far, but the little bit of 135 flying I've gotten to do has been a huge learning experience. Its a different kind of flying than what I've done in training and in CFIing, all different types of wx, busy airports, more complex planes, etc. I imagine it is a lot closer to what I'll be doing at the airlines when I eventually get there. My 135 flying is nowhere near a full-time gig, but I'm vary fortunate to have this opportunity at this point in my career.

So much in the 135 world is based on connections and networking and not everyone is who is qualified is going to end up with these jobs. I have a feeling (I can't predict the future, but this is my guess) when the ATP rule goes into effect the 135 opportunities are going to be a lot harder to come by. Pilots are going to need them to build TT and especially that 500 cross country. The 135 job postings looking for pilots with type-ratings, ATPs, x amount of PIC turbine or time in type, etc will always be there. But the outfits who are willing to hire the 1,200 hour guys without previous turbine experience and relatively low multi-time are going to be flooded with applications when the airlines suddenly cannot hire these people. It will be another case of a too many qualified pilots lining up to fill a limited number of slots.

IMO, there are a lot of people working very hard for slave wages, just no other options to break into the industry. CFI wages have pretty much stagnated, many pilots I talk to were making the same or more 10-15 years ago than what is offered now. I'm always looking for jobs with more pay and hours, but my search isn't yielding any better results. One place offered me a CFI job for only $8.50/hour, and a couple others that paid slightly more but had no guarantee of students (still would have to go out and find my own students) and I can't afford to relocate for uncertain pay/hours. A banner towing offer required that I paid them $4500 up front for training and offered abysmal pay. I'm against 'buying' a job.

It gets tricky is in situations like my 135 flying gig. They have several salaried pilots and the charter business is slow. When I get the opportunity to fly it is because one of the pilots wants to 'sit out' that flight for some reason, maybe they want the weekend off, or don't want to be away from the family overnight, and they feel like they are doing me a favor by giving me their flight time. In the FBO's eyes they have already paid for the pilot's salaries, and all they are willing to pay me is my lineservice wage. It is the only source of multi time in the area; no schools with multis, not many based on the field. By taking up 135 trips, I can build multi time that I would otherwise have to pay for (that is like buying a job), and keeps from having to go out and rent a multi to stay current. Definitely not ideal situation, but I'm networking and applying and not getting any better options atm.

 

I perfectly understand your situation. I'm a MEI and didn't have any students for long time. My ME gig was flying with a friend of mine that have PVT ME and needed a CFII with ME.

Banner gig for 4500 up front??? Not good. I signed a one year contract for training payment.

My 135gig was a VFR 135 in which I practice ILS approach in VFR conditions to stay current. I tried to get hired for 135 IFR, they wanted to hired me after I got the Eagle job. Too late for them because I was trying to get hired for a Year!!!!

So IMO your doing good, just hang there, get your experience (not tt) and when you think you're ready then move up


And guys remember, when airlines are short of pilots, schools get too short of CFIs. You can request more money and if they really needs you they will pay it.