By that logic, so will the 1200 hour FO, or the 1500 hour FO, or the 1800 hour FO....

we need a new standard.

 

not to add more fuel to the flame war fire... but the FO in that case was a highly experienced pilot on the verge of upgrading... not some 500hr newbie... even if all the legislation was in place she still would've been there... pilot hour totals don't mean a whole lot... it's all about the reform of crew rest and duty regs... which I think are starting to improve SLIGHTLY and still has a long way to go... flame away....

 

I heard 400/50. Not 15. Good luck passing training. PSA went from not even looking at below 1500/500 few months ago to this?? The word is out our reserve rules are one of the worse in the industry

 

That's correct, the Colgan FO was around 1500 hours I believe and the captain had over 4000. It is just odd to me that many people on these forums who were hired with over 1000 hours of total time seem to think they are in a different league than a 400 hour pilot. Unless you were military trained or got into a high performance or challenging aircraft it just simply isn't true. You may be able to short field land a cessna a bit better than the 400 hour pilot but that doens't mean jack.

I agree that we need a standard, but the main reason why I want that is so we reduce the supply of pilots and wages increase. From a safety aspect, I think requiring everyone to have an ATP is a good start and a good law. It won't completely fix the issue but will help weed out some of the guys who would otherwise slip through the cracks.

The problem with the logic in my opinion, is that hours are not a good way to show ability or true experience. That is the reason you have 1500 hour KC-10 captains in the military.

 

I am not in total disagreement with you but if hours don't measure experience, what does? It makes sense to me that someone with 3000 hours has more experience than someone with 1200 hours. Regardless of the skills one has as a pilot, in general, at 5000 hours someone has more experience and is more likely to better handle the major problems one might encounter in an airliner when compared to someone with 2000 hours. On an individual basis I would hope that someone is a better pilot at 6000 hours compared to when that person had 2000 hours (and I think in general this is probably true).

In regards to the Colgan crash, one has to wonder if this accident would of happened if they were HIRED with more than 300 hours. If these pilots had instructed until they had 1000 hours and did stall after stall with students would they have correctly recovered out of the stall? It is a possibility. They skipped out on the FOI Law of Exercise by not getting to practice basic maneuvers.

 

Forget the stalls, it's trying to stay alive as a CFI when students are trying to kill you everyday that makes you a better pilot. And yes for the most part more hours equal better pilot. Im not talking about individual skills piloting. I had few students in my instructing days that flew better than I did when I was at their level and I was so jealous. But when crap hits the fan, it's the guy who's seen more situations and been in different scenarios that makes a difference between successful outcome or an unfortunate accident.

 

They stacked the deck against that crew. Hiring people that were basically un-hireable by most airline standards, pushing through a weak captain, having an airline that has only flown 37 seat aircraft fly a 74 seat airplane, no mentoring going on because anybody with experience has left for better treatment, and a completely ramshackle training department led to that accident. I don't blame that crew at all.

Taking shortcuts in this career only leads to playing catch up down the road. Hopefully that catch up doesn't happen when you hit something hard

 

Taking shortcuts in this career only leads to playing catch up down the road. Hopefully that catch up doesn't happen when you hit something hard

Very profound lol I like

 

My humble opinion....

The difference in hours doesn't necessarily equate to stick and rudder skills. As an PPL checkride pilot I have seen GREAT stick and rudder skills from PPL applicants with 40 hours. Of course, I have seen not so great stick and rudder skills at that same point.

However, the difference I see as a CMEL(commercial Multi-Engine Land) checkride pilot is in decision making and situational awareness.

Now as a regional pilot this is the biggest aspect, decision making. Training departments can teach you how and when to pitch, and push buttons. But they CAN NOT teach you how to make decisions and the different scenarios, abnormal situations, and emergencies you will deal with as a commercial pilot.

In the case of going from 400 to 800 or 1500 hours this is where you gain a lot of these experiences to have a base to make your future decisions on.

Just my humble opinion.

 

The Saab 340 is the most technically difficult aircraft out there... if you can learn to fly it, you can learn to fly anything... that has nothing to do with it... the main #1 undisputed causal factor was crew fatigue... the factors below it that hurt would be the abeforementioned sh1tty captain, bad training department, bad work rules, etc... as far as hiring standards, those mean nothing once a pilot has finished their initial training and passed IOE... the training standards are no different from a Saab 340 to a CRJ to a 737 to a 747... if you have been trained and have been certified as proficient in the operation of the aircraft, nothing about your total time, speeding tickets, or anything about your "hirability" means anything to anyone...

an erlier poster asked the question 'if total time doesn't determine your experience, (which it doesn't) than what does? The answer is simple.. your EXPERIENCES determine your level of experience... a 1000 hour pilot who flew has time flying 121 in a jet, some time in some light twins, some piston single CFI time, etc... who has flown all over the country in different types of airspace in different types of terrain in different types of weather is far more experienced than a 10,000 hour pilot who's CFI'd in the same airport his whole life flying around the same traffic pattern... in short (too late) it's not the number of hours, it's what you do with those hours that matter...