Didn't Renslow buy a job with Gulfstream when he hit 250TT? Perhaps if he had spent another 500-1000 hours teaching someone how to do stalls, stall avoidance, etc, then maybe he would have been able to avoid one himself.

3379tt really isn't a lot of hours. SkyWest put out last year that our average captain has over 12,000tt.

 

Beating a dead horse aren't we?

 

Lufthansa was mentioned earlier as a carrier that takes low time pilots and sets them free in a B 737 after training. Maybe if we analyze and review the training that the initial Lufthansa pilot receives we may be able to see why they are successful and others not. My .02

 

So 500-1000 hours in a 150 or the masterful 172 would have been better for his airline flying than 500-1000 hours in a 1900 in a 121 environment?

Riiiiiiight...

 

Comparing the US GA pilot training, and the average number of hours achieved at the end of that period, to either the European airline backed model OR the US military is just highlighting that the poster doesn't know much about either of the paths mentioned.

Discussion concerning the crew of the Buffalo crash so far does not address the times/experience that each was hired with and the probable lack of strong basics that each exhibited. One would hope that enough time flying the line (read as experience) would eventually give those of such caliber a stronger basis; but this doesn't seem to have happened (coupled with a less than stellar background throughout flight training and the acknowledged lack of certain types of experience)

Btw - after spending over 7 years teaching military aviators in their FLEET aircraft (after wings), there are VERY few that I would want anywhere near an airliner cockpit. Even once out of the fleet training pipeline, they are closely watched, continously monitored and graded, and tightly controlled until they gained a considerable amount of experience; and this is all after an extremely thorough initial screening process and training program!

USMCFLYR

 

This is beyond pathetic and borders on ignorantly offensive.
Educate yourself-
NOT ONE part 121 operator has had afatality under a crew with less than 1500 hours.
The statistical "Danger zone" for part 121 come at 7,000 hours when the PIC gets complacent and thinks he's gods gift to the skies.
Low time crews are still scared s---less of making a mistake that'll cost them their lives or their jobs.
If you want safer pilots, stop looking at the logbooks and start looking at the training departments. MOST do a (darn) good job. Some dont.
If you want safer pilots, stop protecting those who make dumba$$ mistakes that somehow dont get anybody killed but dont have any consequences to the pilot because his seniority makes him untouchable.
If you want safer pilots, STOP trying to close the gates on the reinforcements. The statistics (not the schools) are showing a virtually disasterous shortage of pilots in the pipeline. If you advocate increasing the arbitrary numbers to determin who gets to run the radios in your cockpit, then you reduce that increadibly shallow pool considerably.
Yeah,low times pilots can be morons and/or arseholes....thats is what the interview, the training, and the probation period are supposed to weed out.
The ONLY thing the log book shows you....is that someone can write.
The ONLY thing possession of an ATP rating shows you is that the named person can pass a test. News flash...every single 121 fatality....HAD AN ATP in the cockpit! They didnt strip off their shirt, unfirrel their cape, and rescue everyone. Cuz the letters on the card dont make you a superhero.

 

My 2c,

The reason behind the push for 1500 hour pilots to occupy an airline cockpit = is the FAA and Federal Government's knee-jerk reaction to the Colgan Buffalo Q-400 crash. This is the way the Federal Government can satisfy the general public's concern over low time airline pilots.

The reason that most pilots are behind the push is every pilot that has over 1500 hours, this = job security, and perhaps the potential for a higher paying private or corporate job in the future.

I've flown with 250 hour wonders that can fly the wings off any plane they fly, as well as 10,000+ hour pilots I would not trust to fly me or my family around. However, when it comes to the statistics concerning Total Time and accidents, the numbers speak for themselves. That being said, the number of 250 hour wonders that can fly the wings off any airplane, that I have seen, are few, and the amount of 10,000+ hour pilots that I would not trust to fly me or my family, are far between.

The 1500 hour mark for ATP minimums, is not an arbitrary number. Like everything else involved with the FAA or government, there was a committee, a sub-committee, contractors, etc.. that statistically came up with this number. 1500 hour pilots are indeed safer than lower time pilots.

 

Hopefully you will acquire some experience and wisdom before you end up in charge of an airliner. Anyone who really believes that experience causes accidents should have their medical revoked on mental health grounds.

 

So you've been out practicing slow flight/stalls in an airliner recently?

 

Experience doesn't cause accidents...the complacency many often get after obtaining experience is what causes accidents.

That said, your rebuke should have been stronger for the dude proclaiming "the looming pilot shortage" that is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

While I do not doubt newbie FOs cause added stress on captains, it is very important to note (if one is pulling the 'safety card') that no 121 accidents in at least the last decade have been directly or indirectly attributed to a sub-1500 FO.

That would lead one to believe that a low-time FO, while perhaps not the ideal, ain't as big a compromise to safety of flight as some with an agenda would have others believe.

While captains shouldn't have to do basic IFR instruction, captains should take the initiative to mentor their FOs, given them helpful advice during a stressful transition to a new aircraft while treating them not not as lowly copilots but rather captains-in-training.

You're exactly right, having an ATP doesn't make you a superhero...but it does show more than you can just "pass a test" (the same thing successfully completing a 121 proficiency check shows) - it shows that you have the minimum level of experience the Administrator requires to hold an AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT rating.

/full disclaimer, started my 121 career with 1100tt and don't think its unreasonable for airline pilots to be required to have an AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT license