Prefered Minimums???
 

Soryy for the question if it's a dumb one, but for starving CFI's I have noticed that a lot, if not all of the regionals have been going to prefered minimums in parantheses like this 1000tt 500me (Prefered minimums).

Is that super secret not let the public know that we are hiring folks WELL BELOW posted mins so get your stuff in? One company that I am keen one who had space shuttle mins did this recently and are now interviewing, hiring at below 500tt. Just wondering.

Which is that company who is Hiring at or below 500, if U don't mind sharing with us.......

I'm honestly scared if someone's hiring below 500.

Hell I know I didn't need to be in a jet cockpit at 700 when I got hired....I can only imagine the size hole I would have made at <500.

A hole big enough to fit about 52 other folks with you.

C'mon Saluki.... Now pls don't start this low time pilot in a jet cockpit & captain doesn't like low time FO & all that, debate all over........

We are using this new thread to find who else is out there hiring at 500 besides eagle..

So, pls keep this thread to what it is intended......

As long as they don't mind if I put this on my application:

Pay required: $80,000 per year (preferred minimums)

PSA, Piedmont, Eagle, Mesaba, Pinnacle- if you went to one of thier prefferred colleges you don't even have to interview, they just give you a class date, That's all for now. So does anyone know the answer or have I already answered the question?

In other words, these days the preferred minimums are only for the purpose of writing on the web sites, to show the insurance company that the management is trying to get people with those hours, but have to hire from what ever applications they get....

Thanks man.

We can argue about 500 pilots all we want. But I hope nobody is an advocate of hiring grads straight out of school with not even an interview... as long as they didn't get too many C's in class.

I personally think that is just bad practice. I don't care if their program is the most intensive training program known to man, what if the person they hire is a total D-bag. Isn't part of the interview the HR portion used to see if they can stand to be with you for 4 days straight? The fact the bypass the entire interview process and get a job if they meet the requirements seems silly to me.

Some guys in the 141 university program I went through I wouldn't have trusted in a 150, much less an ERJ/ATR/CRJ (you can guess who they have a hookup with).

Fortunately most of them realized at some point that they didn't have the devotion to apply for food stamps and walked away. :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter what school you went to, at 250 hours you aren't anywhere near prepared to fly anything resembling an airliner.

Airlines should not be hiring 500TT pilots when there are 1000 hour pilots whose resumes are not even looked into.

Have those 1000 hrs guys put in their apps & also, do the 1000 hrs guys have the Multi time & meet all other requirements.......

If yes to all, then YES, I agree, the 1000 hrs guys should be picked before 500 hrs guys get looked at....

But, isn't it that Eagle was at 800/100 Hrs for a good 5 to 6 months, what could be the reason they dropped to 500/50 if there were tons of 1000 hrs guys applying ........

DirectTo

I presume you know that most foreign airlines do just that through their cadet programs. That the US Military does the same, putting 500-hour pilots in planes with bombs or with 200K of cargo on international routes with 3 air refuelings planned. It is the type of training, the discipline imposed and the willingness to can those that can't hack it that defines the graduates.

GF

I can draw few comparisons between any collegiate flight program in the US (or any school for that matter), and any of the airline cadet or military training programs. The difference in training and monitoring is night and day.

While I agree for the most part. Emirates and British Airways sent cadets to at least one university program I know of back in the late 90's early 2000's.

I'd say the screening of applicants is the biggest different.

DirectTo

Then, the question is why is it different? Because would be pilots keep ponying up the money and the schools keep training and passing them. Why is that? Because student pilots refuse to believe they should have been shoe salesman and the attraction of being a highly paid airline pilot blinds them to the obvious. Witness, Marvin Renslow.

Schools need to be monitored and held to standards similar to airline cadet programs and military training. I'll bet a lot BA's, Lufthansa's or Cathay Pacific's program is every bit as demanding as the RAF's or USAF's.

GF

I presume that you know that your comparison is OVERLY SIMPLISTIC.

From my experience, and other instructors and low-time friends I know in the idustry, I will say that very few people are getting hired without at least 800-1000TT/80-100multi unless they either have strong internal recs or graduate from one of these few bridge programs. I can guarantee that these sub-500 pilots are not the norm for CFI-timebuilding types to get hired at the airlines.

Well this 1000 hour pilot keeps on getting "Thanks but no thanks" emails. I do not have any failed check ride, completely clean driving record.

But those programs are very rigorous, and require at least one (more likely multiple) interview.

US programs have only one admission criteria: Credit Score (failing that, Daddy's credit score).

They also have only one graduation criteria: Can you pay for enough remedial training to get you through?

There are some real losers out there, and many of them can be successfully trained as switch monkeys. That doesn't mean you want to spend 4 days with them, or have to rely on them in a pinch, or let your family fly with them after they upgrade.

We had a guy like that at my last flight school...classic pompous loser with passive/aggressive, insecurities, etc. I lost track of what happened to him, but I know he flunked several regional interviews back in the day. That guy was the poster child for why airlines need to evaluate the whole person and not just the numbers.

If only you had the Shiny Jet Bridge class. We all know
that really makes a pilot :rolleyes:

It might be one of two things...

- Lack of Internal Recommendations. If you don't have any, shake your network and try to get some. Nothing gets you called faster than your buddy walking your resume into the recruiter's office. In many cases she'll have your resume in one hand and the phone in the other as soon as he walks out the door.

- Mistake in your resume or online application. Go through this again with a fine-tooth comb. Have a pilot buddy also go through everything as a backup. I cannot over-emphasize this.

- Resume: Must have no mistakes, none at all.
- Flight Time: Should all make sense and add up. TT=SE+ME (unless you have helo, glider time)
- Airline apps does weird things. I have heard of boxes checking themselves...make sure you don't have a dis-qualifer box checked (criminal, DUI, etc).

After all that, start updating your resume every six months or anytime you get a new rating) and maybe get more aggressive, ie calling recruiters. You can also attend job fairs, that has worked for many people.

Once you have done everything you can, be patient...sometimes it can take 6-12 months to get called even if everything is good.

What rick said! I am 99.99% sure I had a box checked correctly. I even had 2 other people comb through my application and resume for mistakes. It's possible all 3 of us could have missed it but I doubt it. It was some question about ever being fired for misconduct or anything like that. Fortunately, it was before I had my multi time so I dont think any airline looked at it yet.

Double check that application. Also, in AirlineApps, under "My Application" click "Compare Application" and compare yours to what the company you are applying wants. It's possible you are missing something like ATP written, current 3rd class medical, required pension for buggery, etc.

Good luck. I was well into my 1000s of hours before I got calls. For me it was the lack of multi engine time. I have a co worker who is in even worse shape. Almost 1800 hours TT but only 38 hours multi. Now I ask everyone here... who would they rather trust - someone with 500TT and 50 hours multi or someone with 1800 hours and 38 hours multi.

Either way, good luck.

just apply and see what happens. but make no mistake about it just because you get an interview does not automatically mean you can make it thru airline training. I saw many poor souls in training go into the abyss last low time hiring wave cuz they thought if the company managed to give them an interview and hire them it'd mean they were qualified to be an airline pilot.

1800 hrs flying around VFR in the right seat of an C150 at a non-towered airport in the middle of nowhere? If the 500TT person is flying in congested class B,C airspace IFR all the time I'd take the 500hr person. Just my opinion...

My initial reaction and for the matter, anyone's initial reaction would be, Oh wow, nice 1800 hrs but then on second & closer look, the quality of flying would come to play & make a difference.

How a HR guy knows what quality of flying with out looking at the logbook,?? well, by looking at the A/c U have flown, most amount of one has time in an A/c & last A/c flown...

Now that may not paint an exact or true picture in all cases, it does give a very good idea of what a person has been doing.....

One question which comes to mind is .... Mine or a recruiter, How did this guy keep going to 1800 hrs without thinking what he needs in his resume/profile, what he will need for his Future & career, That he needs to get multi time.
So, what that tells me abt this 1800 hr guy, is that either he lacks vision or direction or he is not focussed on his career or this guy is too comfortable where he is or way too lazy to make things happen or just expects things to be handed to him on a platter....

That may not be the exactly the case, coz his personal situation may have prevented him from moving or doing anything and if that is the case then it is different.

But Still, 1800 hrs takes at least 2-3 yrs to get and too on a fast pace, and Only 38 hrs multi in 1800 hrs... and if those 1800 hrs are towing banners, gliders, then U tell me what is that experience worth, especially from an airline recruiters point of view........

I can guarantee U, with 1800 hrs, this guy doesn't have an ATP because he thinks he doesn't need ATP for his kind of operation, or even ATP written cleared...... one of the least expensive thing on the resume.......

Then obvisiously, a GUY who has CFI CFII & MEI with 500 hrs TT & 50-100 hrs on a multi, flying in & out of classs B & C everyday with his students & teaching & authorising solo for his students in Class C & B; One who has the Instrument Pilots manual memorised by teaching it everday, who flyies NIGHT & actual IMC every other day teaching his students, that guy has more relevant experience & looks more attractive.

1234567890

Edit: What happened to my punctuation?

THE NEW MINIMUMS ARE AS FOLLOWS:
The airlines will pay next to nothing as long as people continue to fill ground school classes. In economics, this is known as the Law of Supply and Demand.

You will notice that FAR121 furloughed pilots with experience and thousands of hours are not lining up to fly for $21,000/year.

Is he applying for a crew scheduler position?

Well, maybe the guy/gal with 1800 hours can`t afford the ATP just yet, so i would not make guarantees just yet. And last time i checked usually multi time is not handed down to CFI`s on a silver platter. Mommy and daddy don`t support all pilots ya know :)

So because the 500 hour wonder CFI can memorize the instrument pilots manual makes him more attractive? So if i can memorize "Charlie Brown Comics", does that make me more attractive too? Memorization only gets you so far before you need to actually apply what you know.

I have to say dude, do you have the "English Proficient" endorsement because your spelling is horrid.

There are a lot of schools that won't let a CFI touch a multi unless they are one of the more senior CFIs. In the last 2 and a half years when nobody was hiring, senior CFIs weren't moving out and the 'newer' guys didn't get any multi time. Then those 'newer' guys were left sitting at 1200-2000 hours with very low multi time. I know a lot of people that were in the same boat that this person is in.

The fact is that most airlines filter out applicants with low multi time without looking at the quality of their hours. Some of the people I know that have high TT and low multi worked at a school based at a Class C airport, took students into actual, into other class C's and B's, etc., but all of that doesn't matter when your app gets auto-filtered out because of one number.

I guess the dude/gal that bought 50 or more hours of split time in a multi going for $100 hamburgers while logging 'under the hood' time for half of it is probably so much more qualified than an 1800 hour CFI.

As for the, "How did this guy keep going to 1800 hrs without thinking what he needs in his resume/profile... ...That he needs to get multi time"
This happened over the last couple years, when nobody was hiring and there were a lot of people on the streets looking for whatever flying job they could get. More flight schools were going bankrupt closing every week, there were lots of CFI's with 500-1000+ hours out of work. Assuming he was in a decent CFI job, possibly a salaried position and guaranteed students I'm sure he couldn't afford to leave it. Flying and getting some time, even if it is only single engine, is a hell of a lot better for the resume than very little to no flying at all.

WE were talking about preferred minimums in this thread..... WE ARE NOW discussing people who don't even have the BARE MINIMUMS.....

ANYWAYS.....

@BELLANCA, I agree with what U said, I know the feeling of going through a DOLDRUM, I HAVE personally gone through those times .......when nothing is moving & nothing is happening. This is indeed the story of a few people that I also know....

I just recently kicked 3 of those in the R end, who were sitting at 1000+ TT with 30-40 ish hrs on a Multi to go & get the extra 10 or 15 they were short...... They were talking of waiting till the time when their senoir intructor, who is a MEI leaves for a airline, & then they will get the multi students.... I kicked them, instead of waiting & to make the move ....
Guess what, All three have Interview dates & the senior MEI hasn't even applied anywhere...... If they kept on waiting, they would have been waiting for ever.......

So, to come back to your point..... YES nothing was happening for the last 3 yrs but it is HAPPENING NOW...... so now they have no reason to wait....

Can U pls be kind enough to point out where I have mis-spelled, so I can correct that....

We, THE LOW TIMERS want to Join the Regionals at LOW wages because we want to reach the 4000 TT & join your ranks, so when we get Furloughed, then we will be all equal and then we can understand the pain better.......

. :d

Thought i should help.

OK... Thanks for the corrections......

I will keep them in mind next time..........

I figured you will ask me that. So i went ahead a post. :D