9E guys are being displaced because more senior XJ Saab guys are moving over into those positions.

Where else are they going to go?

And XJ and 9E fences are full, that's why Colgan guys are able to bid 900 captain and 200 captain positions.

Trust me, 9E did not get hosed in this SLI, the guys being displaced just had made captain prior to the SLI coming out, most of the XJ guys coming over to 9E have many many more years of service than the 9E guy above them in their new position.

 

An acceptable SLI would include fences.

But really...the three INC airlines will not thrive, wither, or fail in isolation from one another. Any perceived unitary success will be artificial contrived by SGU. The company will most certainly whipsaw one against the other in the future if it offers a benefit.

In the long term SKW will not thrive alone while surejet fails...the company would request (and surejet pilots would certainly accept) major concessions if threatened with comair-style cutbacks. Then higher-paid SKW would lose planes...

Ultimately we are all in it together so we might as well take pilot compensation out of the game at least within the company. Goodness we still have to worry about it with the likes of gojet, mesa, etc.

 

Pros: SkyWest has better work rules. Name call if you like, but ask most guys here and even with cousin Chip at the helm, we're still better off than most.

Cons: Although every regional has their lifer contingent, I think SkyWest has a proportionally larger group than most (save maybe eagle). So you won't see quite the mass exodus at SkyWest that will likely happen at many others. Therefore, upgrade will be slower.

Verdict: From what little I know, unless your QOL depends on being out west, I would stay at Pinacolaba.

On a side note, I'd support one list as well. Like Rickair said, we're gonna sink or swim together. I think both pilot groups have a pretty similar mindset now and neither wants to give up our current work rules or pay scales just to get more movement. Whipsawing the two groups wouldn't be that easy. As its stands (currently) I think ASA/XJT will bid for east coast regional feed (much more competitive due to the number of carriers competing) and SKW will continue to try and take over the west coast. I imagine there'll probably be whipsawing down the road, but not for another couple years when the regionals face mass shrinkage or growth and things get much more cut-throat.

 

Wrong. You lose credibility when you ignore facts. And it becomes clear to me that you only care about your poor little self, and couldn't give spit over what is fair and equitable. Perhaps we should share your sentiment.

 

I'd say 9E did in fact get hosed in the SLI. As separate entities, these XJ positions would've disappeared and the pilots being downgraded would've been XJ captains. As a combined company, the XJ pilots have the opportunity to push Pinnacle captains... who would've otherwise been able to keep their seats... back to FO.

How is it not getting hosed when another airline's pilots come in and push you out of your seat that would've otherwise been yours?

 

This is not true and you just contradicted yourself in your most recent post.... I am loosing seniority on the jet because of senior Prop FOs from both 9L and XJ moving over to the jet. What I have issue with is the double standard of the fences for Captain slots which are horribly skewed against all 9E FOs. With the different methods for determining numbers of captain slots for each group as well as all 9E FOs being specifically excluded from upgrade into a SAAB. I went 220 numbers from upgrade to 595 so I would say that the 9E FOs lost out on the most with this SLI... And why are so many 9Es Captains being displaced with no 9L or XJ captains. If I was on the bottom of 9Es list I would leave with only a couple of months here.

 

so this brings us back to my question earlier that no one answered. When it comes time to furlough do we do it out of seniority order to maintain quotas? Our JCBA is very clear on how furloughs are to be handled. Does the JCBA trump the arbitrated ruling? Is it possible to get furloughed while there are people junior to you on the Q simply because they have to maintain a certain amount of people from colgan on the Q?

For example lets say I am 900 on the new seniority list and fly the 200 at pinnacle. Lets also say the most junior guy on the Q is a 2000 number. Now when the 200's get parked and i am displaced would i be able to go to the Q or would I get furloughed because they have to maintain the quota of captains.

 

Quotas are for Captains, as you had stated, so a scenario where a 200 or a Q CA would be furloughed assumes that all the FOs junior on the list have been furloughed as well. This would be a bad scenario.

However, in you scenario you would not be able to go to the Q if Colgan was still under their Q fence because of the arbitration language which states that you can not be "awarded or displaced" into a Q unless Colgan maintains the fence quota. I do not know if that would decided who gets furloughed but it would decide if that 200 pilot could fly the Q or not. Also, that same 200 9E PCL pilot would not be allowed to fly the Saab either for the next 5 years.

 

I do not fault any 9E pilot from having anger regarding the look of this realignment and the possible writing on the walls for future realignments. The 9E FOs will feel the most of the burden along with junior 9E Captains.

However what I do not understand is the 9E anger towards 9L and XJ. You do not like the decision handed down by the judge why aren't you more upset with the lawyers (Merger Committee) that represented your case in front of the judge? The Arbitrator based his decision on what was presented to him by the 3 sides. Bloch did not have any ill will towards the pilots of 9E, he based his decision on what was presented throughout the process.

Moving forward 9E will feel the most pain of the decision, that is a unfortunate fact for 9E pilots. Rememeber that you had 3 pilots who represented you throughout this process and the fact that it did not end up well should rest on their shoulders, not the pilots of 9L and XJ

 

It was the company that staffed so slim. Those were the numbers Bloch used for quotas.