If I were running a regional...
09-18-2011 | 09:22 PM
#11
CFI
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: CFI
DISCLAIMER: This is thinking from management's perspective, I am not necessarily advocating this.
Here's what I would do about pilot compensation.
One one hand you want good pilots, and some level of experience and professionalism. On the other hand high-longevity pilot workgroups will make you non-competitive against bottom-feeders.
The solution would be to hire pilots with reasonable experience, say ATP plus turbine experience or 2000 TT. My pilots would also need a degree and a pretty clean record (keep reading and I'll explain)
This will cost money, which is fine. I would pay starting FO's $40-45K. From there pay would progress modestly, capping out around $60K for line CA's. There would minimal longevity raises (enough to beat inflation plus a few beers) and the pay raise for upgrade would be modest.
This means I would have my pick of entry-level pilots, but also that my regional would appeal most to those with major airline aspirations since the opportunity to make 100K+ at my regional would be very limited.
Since I'm hiring people with good qualifications to begin with, they should have no trouble moving on when the time comes (regionals who hire pilots with GEDs will eventually be paying a $100K/year to a lot of GEDs, cuz they aint goin noplace). This turnover will help keep my overall labor costs low.
Now I still need a professional workforce, even with all that attrition. I get that by hiring the cream of the crop in the first place, and by maintaining a core cadre of senior CA's to set and maintain standards. Now I said it would be hard to make six figures at my airline but I did not say impossible... check airmen and sim instructors would get a huge raise compared to line CA's. This means those who want to stick around would have to settle for very modest income as a line pilot, or compete for a very lucrative training CA position. This would ensure that I retain enough talent to set and maintain standards.
Work rules and QOL would be good, since leveraging win-win wherever you can is just good business. I would even attempt to arrange flow-throughs with my major partners.
This simply aligns business practice with the realities of the regional business model.
Here's what I would do about pilot compensation.
One one hand you want good pilots, and some level of experience and professionalism. On the other hand high-longevity pilot workgroups will make you non-competitive against bottom-feeders.
The solution would be to hire pilots with reasonable experience, say ATP plus turbine experience or 2000 TT. My pilots would also need a degree and a pretty clean record (keep reading and I'll explain)
This will cost money, which is fine. I would pay starting FO's $40-45K. From there pay would progress modestly, capping out around $60K for line CA's. There would minimal longevity raises (enough to beat inflation plus a few beers) and the pay raise for upgrade would be modest.
This means I would have my pick of entry-level pilots, but also that my regional would appeal most to those with major airline aspirations since the opportunity to make 100K+ at my regional would be very limited.
Since I'm hiring people with good qualifications to begin with, they should have no trouble moving on when the time comes (regionals who hire pilots with GEDs will eventually be paying a $100K/year to a lot of GEDs, cuz they aint goin noplace). This turnover will help keep my overall labor costs low.
Now I still need a professional workforce, even with all that attrition. I get that by hiring the cream of the crop in the first place, and by maintaining a core cadre of senior CA's to set and maintain standards. Now I said it would be hard to make six figures at my airline but I did not say impossible... check airmen and sim instructors would get a huge raise compared to line CA's. This means those who want to stick around would have to settle for very modest income as a line pilot, or compete for a very lucrative training CA position. This would ensure that I retain enough talent to set and maintain standards.
Work rules and QOL would be good, since leveraging win-win wherever you can is just good business. I would even attempt to arrange flow-throughs with my major partners.
This simply aligns business practice with the realities of the regional business model.
09-18-2011 | 10:32 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,755
Likes: 6
Most people aren't hanging out at the top of the payscale are regionals just because it's fun. Fact is that since I started flying in the United States in 2004 (after starting my career working in Europe) hiring has only been in fits and spurts and many majors have really not hired much at all. The last time there was significant hiring was about 4 years ago and many of those were furloughed shortly afterwards by United and a couple other carriers. The United guys are only now getting recalled.
American has not hired a pilot off the streets in years and hiring at UPS and FedEx has been insignificant.
I think most RJ guys with more than 5 years of seniority want out of their airlines but opportunities have been limited. The payscales are what pilots negotiate, not what management wants. So to set an arbitrarily low number just to keep things moving is Ornstein-esque.
As long as I have to be stuck at my company I am going to milk it for all it's worth. My retirement will thank me. I don't really care what the company thinks about our senior, stagnant pilot seniority list.
American has not hired a pilot off the streets in years and hiring at UPS and FedEx has been insignificant.
I think most RJ guys with more than 5 years of seniority want out of their airlines but opportunities have been limited. The payscales are what pilots negotiate, not what management wants. So to set an arbitrarily low number just to keep things moving is Ornstein-esque.
As long as I have to be stuck at my company I am going to milk it for all it's worth. My retirement will thank me. I don't really care what the company thinks about our senior, stagnant pilot seniority list.
09-19-2011 | 01:02 AM
#13
Day puke
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 0
From: Out.
What do you define as a "regional" pilot?
If you plan on building a company flying 1900s, I would say you are overly generous. If you are thinking of 74 pax jets flying 1000 miles, I would say you are pretty cheap.
If you plan on building a company flying 1900s, I would say you are overly generous. If you are thinking of 74 pax jets flying 1000 miles, I would say you are pretty cheap.
09-19-2011 | 01:40 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,127
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Not a bad idea BUT...who would want to go there in the first place based on the fact...majors in the past have gone LONG periods without any real hiring. I wouldn't want to go to a place where I very well could be stuck 10+ if I'm going to top out at half the industry average. You're suggesting that after a pre-set period of time, the captains can move on.
1) Liveable wages immediately vs. maybe upgrading someday at another regional.
2) Planning on leaving eventually
There are plenty of 5+ year FO's at regionals right now
09-19-2011 | 01:42 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,127
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
50-90 seaters. Yes, it's cheap but I think the market would go for it. How many CFI's would turn down 40-50K to fly an RJ...right now.
09-19-2011 | 04:21 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,142
Likes: 4
From: FIRE ALPA
In a low turnover time like now, you'd make a killing. In a high turnover time like say 98-00 you would lose your arse. It's a model depending on high time/senority guys being trapped at low relative pay. If turnover is too high you have to pay training like everyone but are not recouping it with food stamp first year pay.
09-19-2011 | 05:19 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,629
Likes: 15
From: blueJet
Are you looking for professional, experienced pilots with a turbine background... or starry-eyed CFIs with SJS?
09-19-2011 | 05:37 AM
#19
Doing One Pilot's Job
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,887
Likes: 122
The overall experience of pilots willing to work for $40k starting salary is going to be quite a bit higher than the overall experience of pilots who are willing to work for $21k starting salary.
09-19-2011 | 06:07 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 0
From: WB Bunkie
One of my best friends works at AWAC and I'm constantly astounded at the difference in make up of our seniority lists. Many, many of SkyWest's top 25% have no desire to move on, they live and are based in a place that would take them half a decade to get back to if they went to a major. Some came to SkyWest intending to leave, but a great many came with the intent to make it a career. From what my buddy tells me, this is not the case at AWAC. You guys will a helluva lot more movement than places like SkyWest or Eagle will come 2012 and beyond.
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