B757200ER

Ever been to LAX? This is a common occurence, and can easily happen----especially at night.

Not to mention 1 of the 4 runways is under con struction, confusing everybody.

Human beings operate airplanes and work in the tower, and humans make mistakes. The key is to minimize these mistakes.

GetErDun

Anyone ever experience an RTO? I hear they are quite violent, one of my fellow Citation guys said he did one and thought he was gonna die.... but he's a ***** anyway....

saab2000

I have been the F/O for two rejected T/Os. The first was a non-event and we just slowed down and taxied back. A flock of birds decided to fly around the runway as we were approaching 60 knots. No biggie.

The second was a bit bigger and we rejected at about 100 KIAS at LGA on RWY 4. That was a bit more interesting, but we still were able to stop and exit the runway before the intersection of 13/31. The passengers were not freaked out about it, but were p/o'd because they might miss their connections at IAD!

kalyx522

Well, yes, from what everyone has said, it sounds pretty convoluted over there. But I'm saying, perhaps if the pilot(s) had scanned (correctly, not just a cursory glance) before crossing they probably would've seen the other jet roaring towards them.
I was trained to clear left center right before crossing any taxiways or runways even if I had a clearance.. leaves less room for human error.
Maybe the confusing layout/construction did contribute to the near incursion, but how many thousands of planes operate there daily? How are all those other pilots able to avoid such mistakes? To me, this seems more of a complacency issue than a layout problem.. ALTHOUGH, it was probably a combination of everything that added up (pilot error, layout, lack of staffing, etc.)

freezingflyboy

Everyone wants more and more systems to prevent this sort of thing. Seems to me there are plenty of systems in place. Why not just install a system like they have on trains that will step on the brakes for you if you go the wrong way?

LeoSV

because then the "system" would screw up and engage the brakes at the wrong time and everybody dies. Don't trust a machine to make decisions, only to follow orders.

LeoSV

what does it take to become an ATC? College, experience, training? I have my private, and have an interest in ATC, but apparently it's tougher to get a job doing that than it is to become a captain of a 777. Atleast that's what I hear, may not be true.

freezingflyboy

My comment was sarcastic. Notice the rolling eyes.

UNDflyboy

LeoSV, I believe you are highly mistaken about the possibilities of becoming an ATCer. Right now it is very easy to get a job as an air traffic controller. Many guys/gals either get a four year degree at a school that has a program for ATC or go through the military. After that it is on to Oklahoma for training and the selection process is not so bad. Right now it would be 10 times easier to get a job as an ATC then a B777 pilot in the U.S.

kalyx522

If I remember correctly from my ATC classes, you have to either graduate from the 13 or so colleges in the US that have approved ATC programs, be a former military controller, or be ex-PATCO (controllers that went on strike in the 80s then got fired by Reagan). There really is no way for an off the street person to just take the exam and get accepted. (Anybody who knows otherwise, feel free to correct me.) Good news is that some of those colleges are community colleges, so tuition should be pretty cheap. I took the ATSAT (the ATC exam) last year and it wasn't too bad.. took me five hours (they give you a maximum of 8 hrs) and I had some trouble with 2 or 3 sections (out of like 10 I think??) but if you're reasonably intelligent you should do reasonably well. (It basically tests you on your brain's ability to multitask, do mental math, memorization skills, and all those other things that controllers need to do.)
Then after you graduate, you wait for the FAA to call you.. right now, the wait is about a year. They do some additional testing/interviews/background checks and then you go to Oklahoma for training for 12 weeks or something like that. (It's all paid training, although they did cut the pay not too long ago.) After you're done in Oklahoma you get sent off to work. These days most people are sent to Centers. You remain a trainee for 2 or 3 years, and then you become a full-blown controller. Controller pay is pretty good. Although, there are rumors that the FAA is going to cut controllers' salaries. It's not a bad deal if you like sitting on your butt staring into a screen in a dark room getting stressed out.. haha. I mean, at least you get to go home every night and have a decent salary. But, it's not flying.