TSioux55

Oh gawd we can only hope!!

mloub

I'm not a Pilot, but I have an interest in Pinnacle.

I've seen several people mention that reducing the certificates to one from the current 3 - or two that management has proposed - will save on training costs. I am having trouble understanding why that is though. Wouldn't training costs be a factor of folks moving from one aircraft type to another, regardless of what certificate those aircraft are on?

Or are SOP slightly different from certificate to certificate requiring training above and beyond what you would expect just for the aircraft switch?

I realize this is an amateurish question, but hey, when it comes to the industry I'm an amateur.

M.

etflies

I could be wrong but moving certificates means the pilot has to go through Indoc training, meaning manuals, and an added week or two of hotel, classroom and instructor time. I'm sure that adds up. Maybe someone can provide more insight though.

DirectTo

Unless you believe the rumorz. Then he will be. When you guys buy CommutAir.

FlyingKat

As far as the FAA is concerned, you might as well be moving from Delta to United when you are switching certificates. They see a different certificate as a completely seperate airline, even though it is owned by the same company. Each individual airline has to have certain positions mandated by the FAA and they cannot be cross utilized, even if both certificates are owned by the same company. For pilots and flight attendants, that means they have to go through the entire new hire process just like they never worked for the company when switching certificates. This means a 12 week training evolution as compared to a 4 or 6 week evolution for normal transition training on the same certificate.

block30

Thanks for your input, and TSioux.

FlyingKat

I can see this playing out one of two ways.

The first way is Menke and co find a way to put all these aircraft on one certificate. They ask ALPA to slow down or halt the implementation of 11-09 and freeze everybody where they are until the integration of the certificates is complete. The only movement will be that caused by attrition and openings at each certificate.

The second way is Menke cannot find a way to get everything down to one certificate. Then I think they will ask ALPA to put a quota on how many can move and slow the process down to make it more bearable in terms of cost. Then once the award is implemented there will be restrictions in place to prevent movement between certificates.

mikeypat15

What happens to XJ Saab pilots who no longer have an aircraft to fly?

mooney

Say I am a Pinnacle MEM based -200 CA. I want MEM -900 CA. If we were one certificate, all I would have to do is 3 days or so of differences training and a little IOE. Since only Mesaba has a MEM-900 base, and they are on a separate certificate, I would have to go through full newhire indoc and aircraft training and full sim sessions and IOE. 8 weeks or so. Then when Pinnacle and Mesaba finally get their certificates merged in a few months, since it would be the Pinnacle certificate, I would have to go through an abbreviated Pinnacle indoc/systems/sim/IOE again. So basically 2 additional full type rating courses in an airplane I already have a type in vs a 1 week process...

Last I heard the certificate mergers were going to be approved by the Feds in late NOV/DEC, but the paperwork that Pinnacle sent to them was so full of typos and grammar errors etc. the feds threw it back at them and said fix it. Anyone who has ever received a 9e memo knows this is a very real possibility. Believe this rumor at your own risk. So it's basically a matter of getting a grammar nazi to merge our certificates.

MunkyButtr

One cert requires FAA approval. The FAA was giving them ish about the Mesaba cert which is why they are surrendering it and moving everything to the Colgan cert. It would cost just as much to get everything onto one cert. Short term cost savings are now impossible in the training sector. Impossible, unless they cancel the vacancy, declare chapter 11, revisit the arbitrators award and regroup. Not happening. Moving to one cert would only cause more of a cluster and add to the train wreck. Need I say cert one more time?




CERT!