Did we negotiate a industry leading contract that in less then a year they are asking us for a 5% cut. I am pretty sure we only have a middle of the pack contract. Did I miss something? How about any manager that makes more then 100k take a pay cut to first year pay? Then they can work up the ladder the same way we did and see if they want to take a 5% pay cut when they make under 40k a year.

Delta is having a hard time reimbursing Pinnacle for all training costs. (Colgan guys bidding over to the jet/ Pinnacle and XJ guys bidding the Saab/Q). Each operation should have been fenced off and slowly train the Saab guys on the Jet. However, Bloch erred and now Pinnacle will be forced into Bankruptcy.

Shine dem shoes

Ladies and Gentlemen, there is either 1 of 2 things occuring:

1. Sean Menke is completely out of control, and has lost his mind.

-OR-

2. Sean Menke is a puppet, with the hand of Daddy Delta, to delibertly send Pinnacle into Bankruptcy.


Speaking on option 1, Sean is making terrible decisions as a leader. What kind of CEO holds a conference call and sounds an alarm that the ship is sinking - then does NOT come down to the airport break rooms and have a FACE to FACE question and answer session??? He is sounding the alarm so loud it's getting world wide attention from investors all across the globe to sell their shares immediately! Come on people, there are actually great things happening at 9E. Such as a merger to streamline operations, excellent past two years of safe flights, moral improving, etc. Financially, not much has changed since last year, especially when you have a "Cost-Plus" Aircraft Service Agreement. Why is the CEO so focused on negative points that are "one time expenses"? A good team leader, does not anger all work groups on purpose. He is scaring the $HIT out of people so badly, employees are ready to jump ship, as opposed to staying on board to man the bilge pumps! He's like a train engineer dumping barrels of pennies on the track at a high speed while standing on the cow guard bumper.

So what - there are some one time expenses like moving into a building downtown, merging three airlines into one, paying pilots 200% during a short staffing time. On time performance is doing good, maintenance costs are down, SOC is being streamlined to cut costs, the training departments are being streamlined as well. Things are getting back on track, there is no point for Sean Menke to FREAK everyone out! Why is he so focused on paycuts? ***? Let me repeat, ***??? Why not hold an all employee meeting in the hanger, and ask everyone to come up with ways to save money WITHOUT A PAYCUT?????? He is destroying synergy, moral and corporate culture. Has he lost his mind???????


Then there's option 2 - None of us pilots, flight attendants or even industry analysts can truly say if Pinnacle Airlines Corp or Incorp is profitable. That is top secret, locked away in the file cabinents of upper mangement at Delta. Sean Menke, doesn't even know if Pinnacle is truly profitable.

The only people that know if Pinnacle is profitable, is upper Delta management. For an airline to have an Aircraft Service Agreement that is based primarily on Fee for Departure, the "books" are completely skewed. Yes, they've "cooked the books" so to speak, ethically and legally. If the average CASM is 8 cents, and Delta marketing department is selling tickets at an average of 8 cents or greater, then Pinnacle is truly profitable.

For Pinnacle to report on it's quarterly earnings that it's made money or lost money, is really no different than a teenager to say "I know my family is rich, obviously, because my Dad gives me 200 bucks each week for my allowance. I make my own BMW car payment of 400 a month, pay my cell phone, food, and gas...and I still have several hundred left over each month." While, in all reality, the Dad has 80,000 in credit card debt, late on the mortgage.

If the 50 seat airplanes aren't able to spread the fuel costs over enough passengers, causing the RASM to be less than CASM, with no hope of fuel to get cheap again........it's time to get the HELL out of the 50 seat RJ business.

You don't know if Pinnacle is profitable or not unless you know what the RASM from DELTA is and the CASM for 9E is. Yet Delta knows these numbers. If...........the RASM was higher than the CASM, then Delta would financially be interested in keeping Pinnacle afloat. And would give them an early pay out, or a loan, etc. 9E belongs to Delta by a "vested interest." It is not in the best interest for Delta to disclose this information to the public.

If they are setting up Sean Menke as a puppet, to send Pinnacle into bankruptcy or poising a position of financial distress to refinance aircraft lease agreements, or union contracts, then they can absolutely control what is happening. Remember, Sean Menke doesn't control the routes, the ticket prices, NOTHING.....Delta Controls everything, and Sean Menke manages a STAFFING COMPANY.



By the way, doesn't it make you wonder that Pinnacle got FORCED into the worst ontime market in the country - NYC??? Why make Pinnacle's biggest base JFK? Maybe to place the Fee for Departure contract in serious jeopardy??? Maybe to rack up the expenses of MOVING COSTS??? Pilots have been in hotels for months, and months and month. Moving Costs are killing the airline.



ALL IN ALL - If any of this is the case, there's nothing the pilots could do to help it.....so why give in NOW to a paycut, when you would get one anyways in bankruptcy court?

Let Phil Trenary and Doug Shockey take a paycut, and let Sean Menke find non payroll expenses to cut FIRST!!!!

IS THIS A JOKE!!!!!!???????????

Delta is one of the most profitable airlines!

Read this article to see how much money they are making HAND OVER FIST!

Delta Air Lines Announces September Quarter Profit - Oct 25, 2011

And then you tell ME what they can't afford!!!!!!!

I dont think he meant hard time as in they can not afford to pay. But hard time as in they do not want to pay for it. Like in this article showing they are fighting to see who pays some of the bills.

Pinnacle Has ?High Probability? of Bankruptcy, Maxim Says - Bloomberg

I've gotta ask about your avatar. Why on God's green earth is there ever any reason to brake that hard in MEM???

I have no doubt if put out to the pilots for a vote that not one concession (monetary or non-monetary) would be approved, but...

...this is what concerns me. As soon as the MEC starts having secret squirrel meetings behind closed doors like this, that's when we need to be concerned about what decisions are being made in our "best interest". Contact your reps and make it clear that everything must be voted on and approved by the pilots, NOT the MEC!

I like how concessionary decisions ALWAYS have to be made in an extremely compressed time frame...but contract negotiations for wage & work rule improvements take YEARS. Very strategic in this case, as it more or less prevents a pilot group vote (especially around the holidays? YGBSM) and would lay it directly at the feet of the MEC.

If 'all' they are asking for is 5%, what's the worst one could reasonably stand to lose at the hands of a bankruptcy judge?

I don't work there so I have no skin in the game, but this has been played out many times before...even at the regional level. And if BK is the best way to restructure the company financially, pilot concessions aren't going to do jack squat to prevent them from filing.

"All of this has happened before, and will happen again."

I could be wrong, but you can negotiate that if you give 5% now and the company goes into BK, then pay is restored. That way a BK judge would cut your pay based on your current CBA, not an already 5% cut.

Give back money? That is the most discusting thing I have ever heard.

"TAKE IT BACK" - Just a fun song by our friend Jimmy Buffett to lighten up the mood...

Jimmy Buffett-Take It Back -Live- Jan 87 - YouTube

Im starting to think SM knows we will give him nothing and in turn will blame the whole BK on the pilots.
This thing is looking like another sham BK so Delta can start pulling 50 seaters. Then they will blame the company's demise and furloughs on us also.

Come on guys they only want 5 %!! They promise if you do that they wont ask the judge to take more!? 5% thats it, they pinky promise.

It does seem that way from how he worded it doesnt it?

Pinnacle doesn't need to declare bankruptcy. They are going through a bunch of ONE time costs associated with this mega merger. Notably training AND millions in bonuses paid to departing executives.

Is your airline operationally profitable? Yes I believe it is. What has happened is Pinnacle isn't making as much profits as it has in the past and that will upset Wall Street since they always want increasing profits. The only way increasing profits will happen for a regional now is through cutting costs and the only real easily controllable cost is labor. They can try and renegotiate some leases but labor is and always has been the easiest target.

Don't give in to them because in two maybe three quarters time Pinnacle will be net profitable again regardless of your concessions. You just spent 10 years fighting for this contract, don't roll over now.

Every merger goes through these one time costs of integration. Delta/Northwest did and United/Continental is right now. Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on these one time costs the difference for a company like United is that they are also generating more revenue which they can point out to Wall Street and say, "Yes our costs are high right now due to the merger expenses but our revenues have also grown."

Pinnacle doesn't have that luxury since it's revenues come from FFD contracts. There is no growth opportunity outside of securing more flying.

Sean Menke is trying to protect his job right now but in reality your company will be fine with in a year after the merger sorts itself out. Let Menke sweat it out with Wall Street, don't take money out of your pockets to make his job easier. Make him earn the ridiculous bonus he will likely reward himself when this is all done with.

Attention Pinnacle pilots:

It's probably safe to say that the line pilots are a resounding "not only no, but hell ****ing no!" on the topic of pay cuts, BUT MAKE SURE YOU LET YOUR MEC KNOW THAT'S HOW YOU FEEL AND THAT YOU WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE SHOULD THEY NOT CARRY OUT YOUR WISHES. Trust me boys and girls. The only people that can screw this up for you is your own leadership.

Last leg. full boat. Parking A13. 18R. Tight commute. M6

Would redoing 11-09 make too much sense for the company to bother doing it?

Lol at this guy.

If u can get me hired at ups please do so I can leave this place

Ask any Comair pilot, former or current, where a pay freeze and concessionary contract a year later got them.

If you give at all, they'll just keep coming back for more. It'll never be enough, so you might as well keep what you have because they're still demanding cuts from Comair guys.

Keep in mind if you accept the 5% pay cut, the payroll tax cut which is about $1000 dollars a year will be expiring and taking a chunk of change out of your wallet. Plus in BK,the judge is going to whack you some more. Say hell no.

I'm not taking a paycut when we have a lot of pilots sitting at home for 3 months not getting paid, because of poor management decisions. Not my problem.

+1. i think this is what is going on. its the backdoor way of delta getting rid of 50 seaters. according to that bloomberg article their scheduling changes cost pncl 12.7 million last year now they will dispute any request for higher payments watching the time runout for pncl. If we take cuts, they'll just drag it out longer but they will win.

Look on the bright side guys, you probably won't have to take the wage reduction. The stock is at $0.86 right now. At this rate the stock will probably be delisted and the company crater before Sean can line his golden parachute off your backs.

Pilots should take a 10% cut and give another 10% more to the union because the union will take care of us till the day we die!!

Thats always a great reason to scare the living daylights out of 50 people who pay your salary.

Was explaining it. Don't shoot the messenger.

I would agree with this if I knew this would work for sure. But will it work? 9E doesn't lease the planes, Delta does. If Pinnacle declares Delta can pull the flying, from what I understand, but Delta is still stuck with the plane leases. Wouldn't Delta have to declare bankruptcy to get out of the leases?

On another note, staring a furlough in the face I want to make as much money as I can before going on unemployment. Taking a pay cut now means that my unemployment amount is based on less pay, like maxing out a pension, the more money you make now the more you'll get from unemployment.

^there goes people dropping the f word again. There will need to be substantial reduction in flying for that to happen. Come on man.

Can you collect unemployment if you get F'ed?

Pay cuts? From what "pay" do they exactly want to make cuts? Apparently those 23$ an hour FOs are taking in way too much, and have 1 packet of ramen noodles too many in their over night bag. What a farce. What was the amount of latest bonuses management took last time?

Full pay till the last day

Sean...what da five fingas say to the face??? SLAP!!!!

Pilot Unity!!!!

AMEN brother... don't give them WILLINGLY ONE RED CENT. Informational picketing is in order... press releases from the UNION to the MEDIA...ANYBODY that will listen as to how LITTLE these pilots flying million dollar machines and 50-70 passengers around really make needs to be the order of the day.

I live in GPT.... and will MAKE time to come to MEMPHIS if something like this ever comes to fruition.

HOLD THE LINE.

And while I don't work for a regional now... I have in total about 4 years at two different **** bag regionals so I know where you guys are.

The 5% paycut has already been voted down... either it's rejected or we decertify the union and organize our own strike... either way... the 5% isn't happening...

Just talked to a guy the other day was in favor of concessions....not a CA either.....

outstanding post

That same guy was one of the ones going to local charter outfits telling the owner he would fly in the rightseat for free... all while cutting a line of 10 instructors who were waiting for years to get paid for that position.

How about 7.5% from captains and leave the poor FOs alone?

LOL! Most frickin' likely! He was probably thinking "pa-lease don't send me back to the uncool land of pistons!" Haha! Kind of reminds me of a couple posts in other threads by some potential career changer types asking basically, "How can I get a good paying corporate or airline job, but I don't want all that crappy CFI pay or regionals for very long....". Well! I guess the rest of us have been foolishly building experience to get the next level when there are short cuts!

Not really sure though, in seriousness, what their background is....I was simply surprised to hear someone in favor of concessions!