What date was it?

If you're talking about the 2011Q3 10Q then that is almost 60 days old.

My guess is they have less cash than you think.

One of the points the latest union email mentioned was the negotiating of the minimum quals for upgrades. Does anyone know what they're talking about? Are they lowering the minimum upgrade times even though they ready have hundres of fo's with enough time??

My thinking would be that a company in financial distress (aka looking for ways to save money) would seek HIGHER mins for upgrade to lower insurance and training costs. Not sure who the heck even pays the insurance, or how it all works out, but I would suspect the whole 3407 thing would make an insurer want more money from anyone associated with Colgan, even on the 9e/XJ side of things.

On a side note, has anyone considered the sick irony of all of this?--Pinnacle Holdings fought tooth and nail in court and arbitration hearings for years to keep Colgan and 9e separate, and succesfully fought off the obvious notion that the whole shebang was a single carrier (and somehow convinced everyone that Corp is a "holding compny" not "an airline.")

After spending a lotta money to lobbyists and lawyers to fight off a forced merger of Colgan & 9e, now they're getting screwed financially precisely BECAUSE they continue to run duplicated everything...

If 9e, Inc. would've done the right thing from the get go, and simply merged Colgan with 9e the second they bought them (with 2-year fences and seatlocks on seat changes), they would be in a much, much better position to absorb XJ efficiently and with minimum duplication of costs.

Classic illustration of the fact that corporations screw up when they obsess over short-term returns, while employees' opinions on things are actually typically better for the company in the long-run.

All airlines are currently run for short term gain. They don't care about quality or performance. They want their bonus and they will jump ship as soon as things fall apart. It is the next CEO/cfo/coo 's problem. It is the epitome being of short sighted but it is what pays the bills for these shmucks. Management is not your friend!

I thought there was a coming pilot shortage? Management should be offering huge bonus packages to their pilots to retain them, no?

I think so. Blame Bloch

Its in regards to the Q400. They are running into problems because the contract mins for upgrade are 2500/1000 but after 3407 the FAA and Colgan agreed to change it to 3250/1000 (unless you had time in type than they are 2750/1000). So Colgan and the insurance carrier aren't letting people upgrade unless they have the higher minimums.

Even though there are already plenty with those mins on property.... good stuff alpo

Just remember, it was fair and equitable...BARF

Phildo conveniently left the company the last week of March (end of 1st Quarter).

As I've said before, "avoidable transfers" in Bankruptcy Court include payment agreements made with former directors within a one-year lookback of the filing date.

I don't see Pinnacle's board declaring Bankruptcy until the end of 1st Quarter, conveniently right after Trenary's severance agreement becomes solidly out of reach of a US Bankruptcy Trustee.

Frontier declared BK right after 1st Quarter as well. All the same players were involved--Menke, Seabury, Davis Polk & Wardell...my crystal ball says they'll file 1st or 2nd week of April whether the paycuts are voted in or not.

This assumes the current 9e board is still in bed with Trenary (and thus Delta/Anderson). I don't see Menke screwing Trenary out of his severance--it's bad form--you don't want to be the airline CEO that screwed another airline CEO out of his golden parachute, especially if you're gonna be looking for a new CEO job at another airline soon.

So a good test of whether 9e's board is loyal to Trenary and Delta will be whether they file bankruptcy before March 24th/25th 2012. Just sayin'.

Anyone think we'll hear anything from the union after tonights gathering?

Yep, I do. Don't know if there'll be much to say, but I'm sure there will be something.

Still waiting to hear something

Update is out, discuss...

"decision is ours..."



NO

+1. Full pay till the last day.

+2. I hope people do not fall for it. This was not caused by poor piloting it was caused by poor management. So what if the place shuts down(I don't think it will) we will all have a chance to finally make a smart move and get out of this industry.

Any info on when th vote might happen.

M.

Sounds like around the 9th... Or a few days after if they come up with a TA, which they will. Im curious what this new business plan is and mainline contracts "subject to change"

Full pay til the last day.

#1. Get some educated schedulers and it would save the company 1000's in pilot payroll costs. The things I have seen them do recently are so inefficient its costing them big dollars.

#2. Why did MGMT just sign a contract with the FA's and give them a multi-million dollar bonus, if they knew we were in financial distress?

#3. I don't see how they need immediate relief when they haven't even negotiated the new rates with Delta.

#4. I don't believe any ALPA Financial Analyst, when they use OUR dues for $200 steak dinners, drinks, and other luxurious outings.

Do you actually have any proof of this or are you another douche bag, spouting nonsense. My guess is that you really are an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about.

Delta won't let them fail. It lessens their ability to whipsaw the regional partners.

Ask your elected ALPA reps. Many of them will proudly brag to you about how nice of a hotel they stayed at during their last ALPA event, how nice of food they ate/drank at their last ALPA meeting, etc.

You present your case in a very articulate manner.

Is anyone able to post a brief summary of the Update? Fly782, I wonder if the talk about new business plans and mainline contracts is management's way of saying "give us some concessions and we will be able to secure new flying", which is of course a vague promise that everyone would have to take with a huge grain of salt.

M.

I've seen this before:



(sorry it won't embed :( )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ6xBaZ92uA

Actually, many of the meals and events are done in appreciation of the numerous volunteers who dedicate hundreds, sometimes thousands of hours of their personal time every year on behalf of guys who would rather sit on the internet, do nothing, and b!tch about ALPA.

So tell me, what good has been done on behalf of the PILOTS with all that time????

Even if you do believe the ALPA finance lady, and you do believe she had honest numbers to work with...it's only a snapshot of RIGHT NOW. A few months ago they were saying this place is in great shape. Now look at it! Even if we did the dumbest thing possible and gave concessions, things can change. It's no garauntee to stay out of bankrupty. VOTE NO!!!

Would it be good enough to provide you the letter from ALPA stating that my entire years of dues were refunded to me, because I complained and submitted proof of union leaders over indulgence?

They go to dinner with a friend and 'talk business' and expense it.

Its all part of the decline of moral character in America.

I'm curious to how much detail ALPA is going to go into when trying to ram this thing down our throat in the roadshows. They signed the NDA, even though they work for me and now they can't tell me the details? I'd like to see the numbers this ALPA financial expert came up with. Just a take my word for it, we need to give concessions isn't going to cut it. A quick rough calculation show that a 5% cut from pilots is somewhere close to the reported cost of the move plus previous management exit costs.

Creating a safety culture that has led to having an accident-free operation for 68 years, for starters.

Also worth noting that the collective bargaining agreement with lucrative work rules that many pilots hold so dear to them wasn't a product of management's kind heart.

True, and yet here ALPA is getting ready to show the pilots a TA with 5% pay cuts in it. Whatever happened to taking this industry back? Whatever happened to a union just standing up and saying "NO!!"??

I understand there are other things in this upcoming TA that have nothing to do with pay. These other issues could potentially help the pilots and the company, and that's alright. But pay cuts, GMAFB!

I encourage everyone to listen to the road shows. I hate the BS as well. Sick and tired of this industry. But..... Listen to what they have to say. Things could get faaaaar worse.

I hear what you are saying and agree, it's BS. I have googled "1113 motion" and would suggest you do the same. I started to realize that life isn't fair soon afterwards... You and I both don't know what will be in any TA yet either, only a vague idea, but like Al said, I'm at least going to educate myself and attend a roadshow if I can. It's a business decision for us in the end, lots of guys are too emotional.

I would love for Phil to end up asking me what type of bread I'd like at the Subway on Nonconnah after what he's taken from this airline, but it ain't gonna happen.

Well this isn't "Mesaba"... this is Pinnacle Corp you're talking about, and there's no way that $afety comes first at this dog and pony show...

I look forward to the day when death by powerpoint and incompetent instructors ends.

Understand this - you could agree to a 50% pay cut to help the company, and if Pinnacle files Ch11 the next day your efforts will not be recognized by the judge.

Only concessions given during BK count as a good faith sacrifice toward the 1113c motion that Pinnacle will certainly file against the pilot group.

+1 Thanks, Boomer. As a former OH guy myself, I've been trying to explain that history is repeating itself to everyone I speak with out on the line.

Someone should mention this to the ALPA guys that sent out their "FAQ" last night where they say any givebacks now will be looked favorably upon by the bankruptcy judge.

That's only popular when it's somebody elses turn to do it. Making the right choice is often hard. This is not a contribution I want to make to the industry. I'm voting "NO"