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mooney 01-16-2012 06:03 PM


Originally Posted by blakman7 (Post 1117819)
Are you kidding? If I were a recruiter at Delta, I would hire a B1900 guy over an RJ guy any day of the week. The B1900 guy will know how to FLY the airplane because that's what they have to do with no autopilot. It's all RAW flying which would make that guy much more proficient. I'm not saying that an RJ guy doesn't know how to fly the airplane because that would simply be a lie but some RJ guys would be more apt to rely on automation rather than flying the darn airplane. I don't know who the hell told you that flying a jet takes more skill but I think that you're HIGHLY mistaken.

I'm guessing you don't have any jet time.....
Why Wouldn't Delta hire an RJ guy with known automation skills to fly their automated aircraft? When's the last time you saw a 767 hand flown 6 legs a day? There's a reason a lot of airlines ask for your amount of "glass cockpit" time...
Flying a jet does not take MORE skill, it takes DIFFERENT skills. Take it from someone that has given hundreds of hours IOE and sim instruction to prop guys coming over to jets...it ain't the button pushing cakewalk you think it is going to be. And yes, I have several hundred hours turboprop time and do not think less of the skills a prop pilot needs, as I said before it is the same skill level just a different set of skills. As someone else mentioned, if I were the hypothetical Delta recruiter, I would prefer a nice mix of prop/jet time, but would probably hire a 100% rj driver over a 100% 1900 driver, all other things equal, because he has experience in the automation and type of flying Delta does. And I'd hire the 1900 guy over the Alaskan bush pilot, even though the bush pilot probably has better stick/rudder skills, the 1900 guy has more "real world airline" time....

flame on... :)

SiShane 01-16-2012 07:23 PM

Definitely agree with the above statement. It's a different set of skills.

2StgTurbine 01-16-2012 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by SiShane (Post 1118182)
Definitely agree with the above statement. It's a different set of skills.

Who said automation and turboprops were mutually exclusive?

When I instructed, I was at a place that had an all glass fleet. The average age of my students was about 45 also. I never saw them have a problem with automation. I even took a 65 year old whose last flight was in the mid 80s in a King Air. He got into a brand new 207 with the latest glass and had little trouble. Twisting some of the knobs and pressing some buttons might have been a little clumsy at first, but he always had a sound understanding of the theory behind the automation. He could understand what he wanted and how to make the automation accomplish his goal.

Also, what do you think happened when aircraft like the 757 and 767 hit the market? Older pilots new to that level of automation were able to transition from aircraft like the 727 that had almost no automation. Or also, how do you explain a 250 hour 172 driver learning how to fly a CRJ? Sure, they might PIC authority and some ADM, but plenty got the button pushing down.

We are talking about 2 different things. You have automation and you have the specific type of turbine engine powering the aircraft. Why not differentiate low bypass jets with hi bypass jets?

mooney 01-16-2012 07:50 PM


Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine (Post 1118191)
Who said automation and turboprops were mutually exclusive?

Never said that. I was specifically talking about the 1900 the other guy mentioned in regards to automation, and a different skill set required to fly props vs jets for the "which is harder to fly" argument...

blakman7 01-16-2012 09:03 PM


Originally Posted by Nevets (Post 1118110)
Ok, we get get it. You're trolling.

Wow, I was actually serious. Trolling was not my objective but I see that it came off as such and for that, I apologize.

blakman7 01-16-2012 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by mooney (Post 1118145)
I'm guessing you don't have any jet time.....
Why Wouldn't Delta hire an RJ guy with known automation skills to fly their automated aircraft? When's the last time you saw a 767 hand flown 6 legs a day? There's a reason a lot of airlines ask for your amount of "glass cockpit" time...
Flying a jet does not take MORE skill, it takes DIFFERENT skills. Take it from someone that has given hundreds of hours IOE and sim instruction to prop guys coming over to jets...it ain't the button pushing cakewalk you think it is going to be. And yes, I have several hundred hours turboprop time and do not think less of the skills a prop pilot needs, as I said before it is the same skill level just a different set of skills. As someone else mentioned, if I were the hypothetical Delta recruiter, I would prefer a nice mix of prop/jet time, but would probably hire a 100% rj driver over a 100% 1900 driver, all other things equal, because he has experience in the automation and type of flying Delta does. And I'd hire the 1900 guy over the Alaskan bush pilot, even though the bush pilot probably has better stick/rudder skills, the 1900 guy has more "real world airline" time....

flame on... :)

Ok, fair enough. I'll agree with this. Thanks for not attacking my opinions like some others.

XJT Pilot 01-17-2012 02:42 AM


Originally Posted by Fly782 (Post 1117853)
Thats not the point...

People appreciate the hand flying skills of TProp pilots. Many of guys that will be doing the hiring for the next couple of years flew many of them in their career progression, so they certainly know what it takes and the skills one acquires flying one. They also get warm fuzzy feelings when they know a candidate can hand fly if all goes bad. With all that said jet time on the other hand is just as valuable for different reasons, I think the ideal candidate would have a mix of both IMO. Ask most mainline guys what they flew before they got where they are... 99% chance it was a turbo with a prop added on.

Well then i'm perfect then, 11,000 hours total with 800 in small aeroplanes, 3000 in the ATR and the balance in a jet at 37,000' and PIC in all of them. Sounds pretty balanced to me and I prob make up about 85% of the demographic of RJ pilots. Don't worry! I have no intentions of leaving my job, you can have Delta

XJT Pilot 01-17-2012 02:45 AM

U know FLY782 you can make all the assumptions you want but when it comes down to it its who you know they could careless if you flew a box as long as you meet the requirements and put back a few beer with the right guys, its as easy as that!

Fly782 01-17-2012 04:01 AM


Originally Posted by XJT Pilot (Post 1118247)
U know FLY782 you can make all the assumptions you want but when it comes down to it its who you know they could careless if you flew a box as long as you meet the requirements and put back a few beer with the right guys, its as easy as that!

Ok? Dont see the need to quote me twice. Just stating my opinion like I said, and yes I am well aware of its all about who you know...

Trip7 01-17-2012 05:11 AM


Originally Posted by blakman7 (Post 1117819)
Are you kidding? If I were a recruiter at Delta, I would hire a B1900 guy over an RJ guy any day of the week. The B1900 guy will know how to FLY the airplane because that's what they have to do with no autopilot. It's all RAW flying which would make that guy much more proficient. I'm not saying that an RJ guy doesn't know how to fly the airplane because that would simply be a lie but some RJ guys would be more apt to rely on automation rather than flying the darn airplane. I don't know who the hell told you that flying a jet takes more skill but I think that you're HIGHLY mistaken.

At ASA when the ATRs when away several pilots struggled mightily with the transition to the jet. One was fired. Flying the jet takes a very different skillet that some dont have. One of them being energy management. The TP will do anything you want it to at anytime. In the Jet you have to be ahead of the plane and configured before it will do what you want it to. For example, in the B1900 almost any pilot can comfortably do 250 to the marker. In the CRJ900, you need a seasoned pilot or it'll most likely end up in a go around

As far as hand flying, the king air series including the 1900 is one of the easiest hand flying airplanes in the world. A VERY stable aircraft. I'd have no problem hand flying it 6 legs a day. Now I can only speak for the crj, but flying it six legs a day would be a pain in the butt with all the artificial "pitch feel" feedback you get in the controls. To make a long story short, it's way more sensitive than your average TP, especially at higher altitudes with the higher speeds. The plane feels as if it was built to be flown with the AP on 90% of the time


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