Can the mods change the title of the thread to "Pinnacle Problems"?

 

I feel that pain. That is just F*ed up.


For the other guy who was saying we should all stand together and that you are a Pinnacle pilot. Let me just remind you what standing together, so-called 'United' has provided all of our pilot group in the last 5 years. In particular our FOs.


"Strength in Unity" hmmmm

 

Yes, 2010 pilots upgrading before a 2007 is messed up. So is trying to staple one pilot group beneath another.

Being upset at a 2010 upgrade because of an arbitrator's decision is as beneficial as myself being angry at a pre merger Pinnacle pilot because of the staple proposal submitted by your committee.

Both are equally stupid and do nothing for the entire pilot group.

 

to play devil's advocate.....
It can also be argued that anybody who came to Pinnacle post 05 to chase a fast upgrade at a time of expired contract/stalled negotiations showed no unity to the pilot group that was already there. I mean why give a pilot group higher wages and a new contract when there are lines of new pilots wrapped around the building waiting to get in? Pilot unity is a fantasy, they are more like a flock of vultures. All this "hold the line" crap.....unless it's you job on the line.

 

A 2010 hire upgrading before a 2007 hire is just flat out awful. I've even told my friends going to upgrade that as their instructor. It's not a secret to anyone.

But this isn't happening because the Colgan guys said "pretty please?!". It's happening because of a 3rd party that decided on it without any of us being able to say yay/nay.

We need to stop bashing each other and become ONE (Pinnacle corp.) pilot group. None of us (Colgan) wished this on any of the pilots there (Pinnacle). It is what it is... And unfortunately "is" SUCKS.

 

Don't want to be a doomsday nay sayer but do you honestly believe there will be "one" pilot group so long as a Captain and FO sit down in the flight deck, the FO 3 years more senior than his captain?

I'm not even touching CRM in the odd case the captain says the wrong word and opens this Pandora box. Think that didn't happen already? It did.

You guys need to stop with the koombayah. This won't be solved in a pacifying manner - this will prolly be another USAir in the making unless the company goes bankrupt in the process and closes doors or unless someone in the union will feel its time to remedy what was done wrong.

 

Remedy what? Run a displacement bid to send 2010 upgrades back and then give those seats to FOs in seniority order? The union can't do anything about it anyways, arbitrated decision. Remember, it was a staple that was presented by your side, how fair would that have been. I don't hold any anger towards pre merger Pinnacle pilots regarding the staple proposal of Colgan, but let's get real. Having a 2010 upgrade sit left seat to a 2007 gets you mad, but having a 1992 Colgan Captain junior to a 2010 FO is ok? Something about "do unto others."

Also, this is not even on par with Airways/West. 3 year longevity gap would be a pipe dream at Airways.

 

Mesaba, DOH, ok that made sense. In fact, I'd be all over DOH with no restrictions on movement to props. But, 2 of the 3 in our 9E group, as lifers, would have been tremendously hurt. Colgan, relative, ok that made sense too. Sure it would have put more above me that were junior to me, but at least I can understand the principle from where Colgan's proposal came from!

Now, the 9E side:

Screw 'em. Those 3 (9E) should be held responsible for their insanity display during seniority negotiations. Stapling the entire Colgan list under the Pinnacle list (Jet Ca, Jet Fo, Prop Ca, Prop Fo)?!?!? Are you effing kidding me?!? I shoulda figured it would have gone that way. 2 of the 3 are lifers anyway, what did you expect, that they would actually try something fair? They didn't go out and try shooting for the stars, they actually shot themselves and every Pinnacle pilot in the foot!

 

Wait... so why the hostility towards Colgan and the 2010 upgrades again? You just said it was your own group that was responsible for making a 3rd party look unfavorably towards your group. The hate should be towards them! Yes it is EXTREMELY unfair that 2010 hires are upgrading before 2007 hires but it is not their fault they were awarded it. So again, we need to stop the division!

 

Of course my hate is towards them (those 3). I have never held it against a Colgan pilot personally to take a position as a result of the ISL. I'd do the same in their shoes. You cannot blame a pilot for advancement that is allowed as a result of ALPA's binding arbitration award. I have poked those who sing kumbayaa and sing about togetherness, but I don't have hate/displeasure towards them, only the 3 incompetent negotiatiors at 9E.