Airline Pilot Central Forums - ASA PBS in danger of worse system.

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Originally Posted by goaround2000 (Post 1133737)

See we don't deal with any of this bull**** with line bidding, and more importantly our contract language is very specific about it.

I can only assume that the misunderstanding is intentional at this point. PBS is a line delivery system and your work rules can be incorporated into any PBS line delivery system. The BS has more to do with our poorly written contract language than PBS.

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I honestly see why you guys think you have it good; your previous contract was such a piece of ****, that anything would've been an improvement. Well after reading both contracts I can tell all of you that there's only two things that the ASA contract have over the XJT contract. So you guys owe it to yourselves to educate yourselves, your MEC won't do it because their lips are stuck to management's ass. So take it upon yourselves to do the research, it will be eye opening.

ASA contract has a higher min day credit, 2/1 duty rig. In addition, ASA Relief Line Holders are now full line holders as are more than half of the previous number of reserves. Before anyone cries that PBS means less pilots, our management has ben heard whining that they haven't been able to reduce costs by reducing staffing with PBS.

Personally, I have researched the Express contract and would prefer that the ASA pilot group step into it as is. That said, the entire pilot group would benefit from a PBS system with well defined work rules.

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The main reason why we will never see PBS on the combined company is because the company will never include our contractual language/protections in the system, because defeats the purpose for them. For every XJT pilot PBS is and will always be a concession, and non of us are willing to take hit for asa or management or anyone else. So deal with it, we have about 1000 more votes.

Unfortunately, it won't work the way you want it. If management wants PBS and we go to arbitration over it, the arbiter will see that PBS is industry standard and we will get PBS.

The 1000 vote thing that keeps getting brought up is an elementary school playground taunt. If the Express pilot group does not like the TA, they vote it down. If the ASA pilot group does not like the TA, they vote it down. We vote separately on the TA, not as a combined group.

Question for the ERJ guys. How long do you guys spend looking over lines and bidding? I am just curious.

We don't go to arbitration when negotiating a new contract. Mediation yes but no arbitration. I usually spend 15-30 min online bidding depending on if it is a vacation month. I am not very picky though, we do have a nice line sorting system that will be bid based on your line pref scores. Either way it needs to be an improvement for both groups. No 89 min bid credit or line 10 having min days off.

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Originally Posted by wanttofly (Post 1133608)

If you're a middle of the pack reserve pilot, especially at DTW then the reason that you don't have a line is...you're junior and no one is leaving. If you were in ATL...you would be on reserve. If you were at IAD...you would be on reserve.

Missed the point did you?

Nope. You're in the bottom 50 people at a 1600 person company and want a line. Pretty clear. I was there once too.

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Originally Posted by goaround2000 (Post 1133737)

See we don't deal with any of this bull**** with line bidding, and more importantly our contract language is very specific about it.

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Wow! The inaccuracies! I don't even know where to begin. Documents of interest:

Transition Agreements (both asa's and XJT's)

Re read you contracts, both our CA's and FO's average over 17% just in soft money.

We spend on average 1-2 hours bettering our lives per month, in a system that honors both seniority and fairness towards the junior guys, instead of the "you get what you get and that's it!" bull**** system called pbs. Management wants it because it eliminates month-end transition issues, and because it would undermine our work rules. Not going to happen!

Learn your terms chief, as mentioned above we don't go to arbitration for the contract, just the seniority list (and we will). Here's the bad news for you and everyone else, if the contract negotiations go to mediation we all stand to lose a lot more than our bidding systems.

pbs will never be voted in! Mark my words.

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Originally Posted by wanttofly (Post 1133957)

Nope. You're in the bottom 50 people at a 1600 person company and want a line. Pretty clear. I was there once too.

Reading comprehension isn't your thing. Although I do want a line, who wouldn't? That wasn't my point. The conversation was about PBS, not my inability to hold a line. Instead of talking to a wall I will just leave the bickering to everyone else. *Exits Thread*

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If the Express pilot group does not like the TA, they vote it down. If the ASA pilot group does not like the TA, they vote it down. We vote separately on the TA, not as a combined group.

Wrong. The pilot groups will never vote separately. The ASA MEC gets a vote, and the XJT MEC get one. If they both vote yes, the entire combined pilot group votes to ratify it, or send it back to the individual MECs

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Originally Posted by somertime32 (Post 1133904)

Question for the ERJ guys. How long do you guys spend looking over lines and bidding? I am just curious.

We can 'Bid via Preferences' which allows us to weigh different options and score it. Lazy people dont even look at the lines and do this via a Standing Bid. Myself, I look thru and find 20 or so lines I like and make sure they are on top (Look for commutability, no day trips, overnights at home). To answer you question directly I probably spend an hour or so on it. For March I spent 45 minutes, then the next day looked over my work (Since its a vacation month) and submitted it. Results come out tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1134020)

This is another thing that can't be understated. We are currently bidding for March. The bid packs were delayed by a week or so. And we are STILL getting our schedules on the 13th of Feb. As far as I know, PBS doesn't get you your schedule until after the 20th? I like to be able to plan ahead a bit for the next month. If PBS were ever a consideration for the ERJ pilots, I hope we would be able to have our schedules at the first of the month like we do now.

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Originally Posted by Elusive Napkin (Post 1134028)

I hear ya. That alone makes PBS a no go item for me. With a wife that's works full time and kids in part time day care we NEED my schedule ASAP since mine is the most difficult to move around. This delay we had in the bid packets is really screwing things up.