Anything is possiable and I'm sure they will ask but the standard is really really high. I don't see it happening.

 

Having been in this situation with Mesaba we want to stay out of bankruptcy if we can. Right now the company is only asking me for 5% (I am not in favor - just saying the ask). If/when we go into bankruptcy, the whole contract is up for renegotiation. A 5% pay cut is bad. In bankruptcy the company just has to convince the judge that min day, insurance costs, per diem, needs to be reduced some percentage. Don't fool yourself - EVERYTHING is on the table. And nothing labor says will affect the judges decision.

This is why Tom Wychor wants to stay out of bankruptcy I suspect.

In our bankruptcy we had a few small victories. But nothing substantial was won. I don't want to take a pay cut. I didn't get ANY benefit from the contract or SLI so a pay cut would be a disaster for me.

I don't know if out of seniority furlough is possible. I've heard both sides. But I do know that the judge will do what he can to keep the company alive - not to keep the employees happy. I am not looking forward to it. But I suspect that with the short term things ending in April we will hear some interesting things fairly soon.

 

Your pay falls under your CBA so you are protected (the government protects you), Healthcare is the same as above mentioned, and your 401K is not tied up to bankruptcy, this is a different pot of money and the company can't go after it, again protected by goverment! They could alter your CBA and change your pay, the contribution amount to 401K and health care premiums but this has to be agreed upon by the union or would have to be left up to the judge under the 1113 process. This doesn't make you an unsecured creditor, now if you loaned the company 10 dollars and you don't have collateral like an airplane light build then you sir are an unsecured creditor. AE is not on the unsecured creditors committee on the AMR CH11 process. The unsecured creditors committee is made up of the largest creditors.

 

I think that anything is possible, but an out of seniority furlough would be highly unlikely and I cannot say with certainty that it might even be unprecedented.

 

Do you really think that a 5-7% pay cut across the board will keep you guys out of Bankruptcy? Research recent history, how many airlines have entered CH11 after signing a new contract with the employees. AMR tried hard in the fall of 2011 to sign new contracts with employees, to include those who had contracts that had not reached they amendment date. Weeks after they gave their employees an ultimatum they filled BK, even with a new contract we would still be in Bankruptcy court but with less of a contract to cut from. Bankruptcy has to do with more than just your pay, the company wants to renegotiate leases and other loans, it wants to fix the SLI debacle that you guys have. Workforce is just a small picture, unlike the majors where pensions, work rules and SCOPE played a larger factor. Delta can't afford to have you guys failed and liquidated, there aren't many other regionals out there anymore so that would mean that RAH and SKW would grow and thus demand more for feed or take it back to the mainline, but they can use the CH11 process to readjust their fleet cheeper, just like AMR is doing! But I am no expert, I just have been researching and paying attention to the game because I work for a bankrupt airline!

 

Of course we want to stay out of bankruptcy. Who would not? But do you think 8mill (5%) will make a diferance to a billion dollar company with nearly a billion in debt.

 

Read about chapter 11. Like me, you have lots to learn.

 

My memory is bad but I think it has only been done once before and unsuccessfully at that.

 

Word from an ALPA pizza lunch.... ALPA offered the company $14 million in savings, and the company wanted the 5% paycut which would give them another $9 million in savings. As far as Tom Wychore sees it, he expects a bankruptcy filing within the next 1-2 weeks. Furloughing out of seniority order would take a 13E ( for Emergency) filing.. And the agreement of the judge that this is the only way to avoid liquidation.. This has only been allowed once. If we keep the Q's and lose only the Saabs through an orderly wind down, the union thinks that we can avoid furloughs.
As for the Delta ASA's, they apparently are safe, unless Pinnacle is dumb enough to ask Delta to renogiate the contracts in bankruptcy.
As for the class cancellations, the word we heard is that there is such a backup in training that they don't want to bring anyone else in, until they get the transition training completed.

 

Ok so I am not exactly following you, are you suggesting that overnight they can take your healthcare and 401K away without following the process?