I expect a fence around the crj700/900. As far as the crj200 and emb145, who knows? Same size and will end up being the same pay, so other than training cost to switch aircraft, I see no reason for a fence (company may not like the additional training cost).

I wouldn't get too upset about it. From what i hear, you will probably have anywhere from 2 to 4 years seniority (at least!!) before the lists are intergrated.

Spoke to some negotiators they said arbitration is not a requirement and can not be imposed unless agreed upon so it will never happen. Dont need to worry about that so stick to your guns. What some people call getting greedy i call being fair. We should at the very least keep our current work rules, return to pre concessonary rates, and receive longevity increases.

That would be nice - I'd just love the opportunity to get back to Atlanta. Would be better than a doubling of pay for QOL.

It's funny, I talk to guys who swear the contract will get done this year, and guys who swear it will take another 2-3 years or more. I have no idea what to think at this point. My concern is that it doesn't seem to do the company much good to move fast on the new contract - I mean, it will likely mean increased costs, so why rush to implement it? The union has been saying more progress is being made lately but who knows?

+1 - Agree completely.

Also with what is happening at Eagle, RAH and Pinnacle will probably cause you guys to stagnate in your counteract! Your management won't want to lock you guys in a contract when this other airlines are either going to amend their contract in the wrong direction or not get a new contract.

Could be. It could be that the only hope in the regional industry is consolidation, just like the majors. Size could potentially allow enough economy of scale to allow for more competitive bidding even while paying pilots better. It could also mean airlines could take measures so they are not wholly depending on one legacy major for their survival, thus improving their negotiating position.

It's sad to say, and I wish only the best for every pilot out there, but some of the current regionals I think need to fail, and others to consolidate. Too many and too easy to play one off the other these days. Great for the majors, but bad for the little guys.

That all being said, the bottom line for the hope of increased pilot pay is pure supply and demand. For as long as I can remember, the regionals have had an unlimited supply of pilots to use. If they need more, they lower their mins. Unless hiring at 250/25 wouldn't net enough pilots, they could always go lower and find eager applicants. Unions could prop up wages somewhat, but that was always a losing game in the end, because as soon as one labor group got too expensive, a new, cheaper airline (think Independence Air, GoJets, etc) would be started in its place. There was always someone dirt cheap to play off of.

The hope for the future lies in a genuine pilot shortage. It is the only thing in a free market, even one with Union support, that will drive wages higher, period. We need more demand, and less supply. The new rest requirements and Age 65 retirements should help the demand side, and the new ATP requirements and hard to find financing should help on the supply side. Growth in the US with an improving economic outlook, and well as growth oversees siphoning off some pilots could help as well. Will it be enough? I think we will start to see in the next year or two.

It's easy to see that management is worried about this. Expressjet has talked about new agreements with universities to guarantee jobs for students graduating from certain flight programs, and then guaranteeing them interviews at a major down the road. They are worried about their supply of cheap labor. They are starting to think that the game over the next five years is going to be who can keep the pipeline to less expensive labor open and flowing, and who can't.

That's why I left a better paying gig - to take a shot at it. There's a genuine chance this could unfold in the pilot group's favor for once. Maybe. But it's worth a shot.

I agree with your statement, we live in a nation that the government will allow the airlines to influence their design making for example;

Age 65 rule: (helped pilots who lost their pensions, but allowed management to maintain a surplus of pilots)

ATR/1500 hr rule: This should have been made a law in years past, but we have to wait almost 4 years for it to be implemented and we still don't have all the details about it.

Rest rules: same as above, why does it take 2 years for "companies and unions to bargain"?

The airlines will continue to cry could and influence the government! For this of you that don't know, last fall the CEO of American Eagle attended the White House to lobbie against the 1500 hr rule and the rest requirements, citing the following.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...10122011-1.pdf

The supply of qualified pilots in the U.S. is already tight due to a number of factors, including (a) growth of travel world-wide, especially in Asia, (b) reduced numbers of pilots from the military, (c) reduced attractiveness of the commercial pilot profession, and (d) the added burden of financing training costs

Industry-wide, the number of FAA issued Airline Transport Pilot certificates decreased almost 60% from 1999 to 2009 (7,173 to 2,895)
Total number of active pilot certificates held in the U.S. dropped by 9% from 2000 to 2009, from 608,079 to 554,237

• The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) predicts that this number will continue to decline, to 500,000 by 2014

• The pilot supply situation is expected to worsen due to both the 1/1,500 Hour Rule" provision of HR 5700 and mandatory retirement at age 65

• The regional industry's experience in 2011 indicates that the supply of new pilots is already an issue at regional carriers, without the application of the
1,500 Hour Rule or the NPRM
.
In addition to mandatory retirements and others issues impacting the pilot supply pipeline industry-wide, Regionals face the added burden of losing pilots to mainline partners due to pass-through agreements and wage differentials

• Then, once the 1,500 Hour Rule takes effect, roughly 50% of current new hire pilots at regional airlines would not be eligible candidates, significantly impacting the ability of regional carriers to maintain necessary staffing levels

• Finally, overlaying the added requirements of the NPRM would be especially burdensome to regional carriers
The 9.6% pilot shortfall estimated by the ATA as a result of the NPRM translates to the need for almost 7,200 additional pilots industry-wide
Although mainline carriers may be able to source additional pilots from the regional carriers, the Regionals, given current difficulties and the 1,500 hour rule, will have no new source

These were his recommendations
NPRM
1. 95% Schedule Reliability - Reporting and adjustments of Flight Duty Periods should be based on maximum charted FDPs, not on the scheduled FDP published by the air carrier

2. FOP Extensions - Air carriers shou ld be allowed to extend the charted FOP a maximum of 2 hours on a "day of" basis for items not under control ofthe air carrier (i.e . weather, ATe, mechanical issues); FOPs should not be able to be extended on consecutive days, but more than 1 time per 168 hour (7 day) period

3. Short Call Reserve - Time spent on short call reserve should not be included as part of duty, until the pilot is called and notified of his/her assignment

4. Phasing of Rule - A "knife edge" implementation would be extremely burdensome for air carriers

5. Correction of Problem Pairings - Quarterly with 90 day window

1,500 Hour Rule

1. Training Credit - Accredited universities and FAA certified commercial flight schools 2. Military Pilot Exemptions

3. Grandfathering - Of currently employed, trained and qualified pilots

4. Modification of 121 AirCarrier Training for low experience pilots

It just drives me nuts that instead of charging $2-3 more per ticket and solving the problem by paying pilots more, the airlines run to the government and try to dilute the effects of the new rules.

In a free labor market, a supply shortage is fixed simply - pay people more, and more people will want to do the job. It's that simple. With all of the fees that are already added to ticket prices, a couple of dollars more isn't going to drive the public away from flying, but if it allows pilots to be paid enough so that enough are attracted to the industry, everyone wins.

Management is happy when market forces favor them, but all the sudden the tables are turned and suddenly the pilot shortage is placing them in grave danger. What BS. It's simple - you have to do what every other industry does - compete for skilled labor. They just don't want to do it.

the previous 3 posts were really good... well done guys; you don't read many intelligent and informative posts on these forums too often... I like the sense of optimistic reality... nothing sugar coated.

It's quite simple;

If an airline that employees 3,000 pilots with a minimum guarantee of 75 hours raised the hourly wage by $2 would be looking at an increase in the balance sheet of $450,000 on just minimum guarantee pay for pilots, that's $5,400,000 a year. It is more economical to lobbie and utilize the money to cover other expenses, i.e. marketing, remodel or everyones favorite... Executive compensation. This is the way a bean counter reasons.

Right, but how many passengers does a 3000 pilot airline fly each year? According to one source, Expressjet (about 2700 pilots currently) carries 40,500 people per day on average, which equates to 14,782,500 each year.

5.4 million / 14.78 million = .303

That same bean counter should realize that raising ticket prices by $0.30 per ticket would allow that $2 raise. Actually even less, since my calculations were for a 2700 pilot group, not 3000.

Therefore, a $2.00 raise in ticket prices would allow for a better than $12/hr raise to all pilots, and would probably solve the labor shortage.

But when you have a surplus of pilots it's not required, as a regional you don't control the ticket prizes. You bid for a contract and it's your responsibility to ensure the cost is less that the fee for departure contract payout. Now as we start seeing less applicant things will start changing. It's all about supply and demand and right now we are starting to see a stronger demand for the qualified pilots available.

* I'm there with you that it wouldn't cost the companies a significant amount per ticket to increase the pilots compensation, but with more guys willing to work than jobs amiable they will utilize that money for other things. We will see how things go once we have attrition, and stricter requirements for qualifications and rest requirements!

I'm going to have to disagree with you. If you gave 20-30 years to an airline expecting a pension and multiple retirement funds that your airline has their hands in, and now that airline declares bankruptcy and states its intention to dissolve everything you've worked for the past 20-30 years, I think suicide is more likely compared to experiencing stagnation at a regional for 5-10 years. One is now approaching Age 60, & has essentially lost the ability to fund retirement, & only 5 years to make it up. Not likely that one has the option to enter a different field either. Not a rosy picture. JMHO.

Pilot Recruitment
 

Does anyone over at ExpressJet happen to have any current contact information (preferably a phone number) for someone associated with Pilot Recruitment? If you do, could you please drop me a PM? It would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

I just scheduled the RJ orientation course at ATP because I thought it would go a long way towards earning an interview at XJT. I've got 1300 and 145, but I was involved in an instructing accident eight years ago. I hoped taking the class might even out that black mark on my record.

If hiring is about to stop, it looks like I just unwisely spent about $2500. I tend to be someone who sets the top of the market though. I tried for a year to earn an interview at Eagle and finally got invited just before Thanksgiving. Ten days later it was cancelled when AMR filed for bankruptcy.

I love to fly, but had I known what the last ten years were going to be like, I never would have bothered. Back to the drawing board, potentially.

Sorry to hear about your situation, but right now is the time to act! Seems like Pinnacle will furlough a lot of pilots and Eagle has a good chance to head in that direction, this will flood the market with pilots who are more qualified than you are. Good Luck and keep your head up!

I've heard a lot of rumors that hiring is going to stop. I've also heard a lot of rumors that hiring is going to continue through the rest of the year. That should tell you something...

For what it's worth, in April we have 3 ERJ classes and 1 CRJ class. To my knowledge that's the most classes we've had in one month since hiring started on the ERJ side at the beginning of 2011.

The company hasn't officially said anything about hiring past April. They seem to be taking it a month at a time.

For those who are thinking about applying should do it now because there are already lots of Eagle and Pinnacle guys/gals who are trying to get on over here.

I guess one reason to believe hiring will continue in some form, although it's not the most convincing one, is XJet just signed and agreement with ATP flight school in February guaranteeing an interview to those who complete one of their RJ courses.

That is interesting.

Here is something I can promise. Management is genuinely worried about a pilot shortage in the not to distant future. That doesn't mean there will definitely be one, or it will definitely be severe, but they are concerned enough about it that they are taking steps to try to ensure they have a pipeline moving forward. If you look at it cynically, you could say they are trying to keep supply up to maintain a flow of cheap labor (the other way to get more pilots is to simply pay them more, but it's cheaper to ink deals with colleges and flight institutions). If you look at it practically, they are just trying to set themselves up for a successful future. Whatever your view, it says something to me that they are preparing this far in advance.

The previous poster was right about the classes in April. Rumors are circulating both ways. For a while all we heard was 500-700 pilots this year. Lately there have been rumors of that slowing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I got burned early on reading too much into the Expressjet forums regarding rumors about hiring, new flying,etc. This company keeps a good pipeline of information open but they typically give you a one month forward looking view on things like hiring. It's probably better than over-promising and under-delivering (can you imagine if in January they said they'd hire 600 pilots this year but then stopped hiring mid-year? People would freak out).

Personally, I don't think hiring will stop completely. It may pause for a few months after the summer, but the ERJ side is losing about 16 pilots per month, equivalent to at least one monthly new hire class. The captain I flew with today told me he's already been hired at Jet Blue, just waiting on his class date to turn in his notice. I know there are a number of captains moving on, so hopefully attrition starts picking up some more as well. They did announce only one upgrade class planned for June-July, after two in the previous period, but that's been known to change. Can't read too much into it.

For now, we are hiring like gangbusters. Hopefully it will continue.

Airline Pilot Jobs in Dallas, Texas - Confidential

Confidential airline hiring pilots in Dallas. If you go to ExpressJet's website you'll find the same cheesy job description. Just thought that was interesting...

That is interesting. Sounds like us, though I wonder why it says Dallas and not Houston?

Confidential my arse:

"Authorization to work in the United States: Legally authorized to work in the United States with a valid passport / Possess a permanent resident card if not a US citizen / Have the right to travel to/from the cities and countries served by Expressjet."

Ahahahaha.... good eye..

AMR flying? Would explain the confidential listing. Sound of can of worms being opened.

My thoughts exactly.

Or a typo or fake listing. Found one the other day that said Comair was looking for a few good men.

Sure...
Click the "map it" button on the listing. It will show you a map of downtown Dallas. They must be planning on building a new airport right there, just a few steps from the grassy knoll, if you know what I'm saying.

Or a typo or fake listing. Found one the other day that said Comair was looking for a few good men.

Guess you did not see that one. I totally agree with you.

No idea how long it's been taking. I was hired last Fall and I think it largely had to do with me going to a job fair and getting some face time with the recruiters. I met with them and had an interview set up in less than a week. Heard back from them a week and a half later with an offer.

I can't really speak as to how long it's taking for people to set up interviews, but I think it's generally taking about 1-2 weeks to hear back after you interview.

Pm me. I might be able to help.

how much are first year expressjet pilot taking home once taxes are taken out.

Not enough - to answer you question. More directly, before taxes first year is about 21K, second year is about 32K.

How does anyone survive on that kind of income? That's robbery.

You will probably have to move back home with your parents or live under a bridge. I did the former... Sucked.

If you're single with no kids it's still difficult. I have no idea how guys with families make it work.

Anyone have any better/more information on the new interview style than the gouges? Thanks!

Stay at Durry Inn. Bring ear plugs so you don't stay up all night listening to jets depart every 10 seconds. Take 7:00 bus to Delta building. Go to the security gate and get a badge. Waite in the lobby. Be social and confident.

There were only 3 people in my interview group. We all had over 1600 hours. The other 2 guys had turbine time. They were interviewing like 6 per day, until they raised the minimums. Obviously, the pool has shrunk.

Short presentation.

3 computer tests. 16 section Cognitive, 300 question Personality, and 60 question delta aeronautical knowledge test.

one page of HR type questions you have to write responses to.

one page written paragraph.

lunch

Interview: Mostly instrument procedures.

Then they drive the group to the ATech building for fingerprinting and dating forms.

Then drive to pee test. Then back to hotel, done by beer-thirty.

No written knowledge test. (just the computer test)
No Sim.
No HR interview. (just the written questions)

The delta test wasn't too hard, but harder than an FAA test. It was broadly reaching in subject area, holding, weather, systems, light gun, runway marking, hand signals, turbine stuff, regular and transonic aerodynamics, etc. I think I probably made an 80 on it. I think I would have been able to make a 60 to 65 without studying. I studied all the regular stuff, aim, etc, and the turbine pilots flight manual, since I had no turbine time.