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Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1171864)
The latest rumor has all the 135s out of the desert and more 145's for new CPA. All occurring in the fall...discuss!
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Hey goaround, what is with the ego trip? I'm not jealous. I'm frustrated as many FOs here are. Big difference there chief
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Hey goaround, what is with the ego trip? I'm not jealous. I'm frustrated as many FOs here are. Big difference there chief |
Well accept my apologies then. I need to cool off from all of this anyway.
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Its actually funny how fired up you ASA guys get when we tell you about our schedules. You think we're not being honest and I honestly don't care. When I tell you I haven't worked a single weekend I haven't wanted to in 6 years, I really don't care if you don't believe me. If you ask me about our schedules I'm going to be honest with you. If you thinking I'm lying because your schedules are so bad then w/e. I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again: The people that work weekends are people that want to and reserves. MOST reserve lines are over the weekends. Relief line holders get mostly weekend trips. If you decide to be nasty toward us instead of accepting the good situation we have with scheduling and trying to adopt it on your own, then theres nothing I can do about it. The fact is, we get our schedules about 10 days into the previous month, we have the opportunity to improve it to our liking, and we have tons of open time to use throughout the month to trade into should our schedules at home change. Our reserve rules are leaps and bounds better than yours, our contract is way better, and guess what. The latest numbers show our crews cost less per hour and our schedules are way more efficient. Thats right, you read that right. The mighty ExpressJet that you guys have been programed to think is too expensive and causing the company to lose money is actually cheaper than the almighty ASA. Get over it and start trying to work toward a better situation for yourselves. This crap from you guys is really starting to get annoying.
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I wanted to clarify a few things per our May phase 2 (relief and reserve) bid package. In Newark - the top 52% will get a relief line. The next 10% will get long call / floating reserve line (more days off). The next 10% will get reserve weekends off. The next 10% will get 2-3 full weekends off. And finally the last 18% will get a lousy schedule awarded with 1 or no weekends off. All of us have been there - but utilizing 'Bad Day / Worse Day trades' that lousy schedule can be modified to help both the pilot, and the company, by increasing coverage.
As I said earlier, since I have held a relief line, I have worked one weekend. I was not awarded a schedule like that - it was using line holder 'Bad day / Worse day' rules and modifying it continuously, once the secondary line improvement window opens. I live in Jersey, and if you are willing to sacrifice commutability on one or both ends - the world is your oyster as far as trips are concerned. Feel free to PM or ask more about the actual logistics of our bidding system. Just so the senior guys know, us 'new guys,' know how good this system is, and will NOT be voting for any CBA that does not contain the words line bidding. Cheers! |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1173394)
If you're looking for facts I'd suggest staying away from forums, besides it's a free forum, if you don't like the content, don't click on it!
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Originally Posted by unit monster
(Post 1173218)
I know, I've read it a hundred times. Your schedules are better, your contract is better and you're all ace pilots. I am just curious what % in seat leaves you on reserve? Also curious, what % of reserves work weekends?
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Originally Posted by JetBlast77
(Post 1173532)
Its actually funny how fired up you ASA guys get when we tell you about our schedules. You think we're not being honest and I honestly don't care. When I tell you I haven't worked a single weekend I haven't wanted to in 6 years, I really don't care if you don't believe me. If you ask me about our schedules I'm going to be honest with you. If you thinking I'm lying because your schedules are so bad then w/e. I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again: The people that work weekends are people that want to and reserves. MOST reserve lines are over the weekends. Relief line holders get mostly weekend trips. If you decide to be nasty toward us instead of accepting the good situation we have with scheduling and trying to adopt it on your own, then theres nothing I can do about it. The fact is, we get our schedules about 10 days into the previous month, we have the opportunity to improve it to our liking, and we have tons of open time to use throughout the month to trade into should our schedules at home change. Our reserve rules are leaps and bounds better than yours, our contract is way better, and guess what. The latest numbers show our crews cost less per hour and our schedules are way more efficient. Thats right, you read that right. The mighty ExpressJet that you guys have been programed to think is too expensive and causing the company to lose money is actually cheaper than the almighty ASA. Get over it and start trying to work toward a better situation for yourselves. This crap from you guys is really starting to get annoying.
We. Understand. You. Just one last time: PBS ended up much better than our previous line bidding in many ways. Most people I fly with love it. That said, everyone I fly with is willing to use whichever scheduling method gets the best results. Having Express Jet guys continually lecture us and cram how great XJT operations is down our throat gets tiring and is now building resentment. |
Originally Posted by JetBlast77
(Post 1173532)
The latest numbers show our crews cost less per hour and our schedules are way more efficient. Thats right, you read that right. The mighty ExpressJet that you guys have been programed to think is too expensive and causing the company to lose money is actually cheaper than the almighty ASA. Get over it and start trying to work toward a better situation for yourselves. This crap from you guys is really starting to get annoying.
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Originally Posted by JetBlast77
(Post 1173532)
Its actually funny how fired up you ASA guys get when we tell you about our schedules. You think we're not being honest and I honestly don't care. When I tell you I haven't worked a single weekend I haven't wanted to in 6 years, I really don't care if you don't believe me. If you ask me about our schedules I'm going to be honest with you. If you thinking I'm lying because your schedules are so bad then w/e. I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again: The people that work weekends are people that want to and reserves. MOST reserve lines are over the weekends. Relief line holders get mostly weekend trips. If you decide to be nasty toward us instead of accepting the good situation we have with scheduling and trying to adopt it on your own, then theres nothing I can do about it. The fact is, we get our schedules about 10 days into the previous month, we have the opportunity to improve it to our liking, and we have tons of open time to use throughout the month to trade into should our schedules at home change. Our reserve rules are leaps and bounds better than yours, our contract is way better, and guess what. The latest numbers show our crews cost less per hour and our schedules are way more efficient. Thats right, you read that right. The mighty ExpressJet that you guys have been programed to think is too expensive and causing the company to lose money is actually cheaper than the almighty ASA. Get over it and start trying to work toward a better situation for yourselves. This crap from you guys is really starting to get annoying.
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Originally Posted by Vertisch
(Post 1173755)
Blanket statements like this are like saying apples cost less than oranges. There are too many factors involved. I think both sides are pretty close; some aspects when XJet is cheaper and some where ASA is. But to simply say one is flat out cheaper than the other is blatantly false.
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We are in this together. i'm not going to vote yes on anything that isn't better then what we both currently have. I'm a mid pack fo and average 17 days off and over 90 hours. I work the odd weekend but that is just so I can have long stretches of days off. I sincerely believe that PBS in it's current form will harm my ability to do this.
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Originally Posted by unit monster
(Post 1173733)
You come off as quite the ego maniac. I looked back a few pages and I don't see any ASA guys toting how great our scheduling is, yet you continue to post on every page about how much better your contract is.
We. Understand. You. Just one last time: PBS ended up much better than our previous line bidding in many ways. Most people I fly with love it. That said, everyone I fly with is willing to use whichever scheduling method gets the best results. Having Express Jet guys continually lecture us and cram how great XJT operations is down our throat gets tiring and is now building resentment. I've got a number of good friends on the CRJ side as well, and all I can say is that I hope the two pilot groups can work together and take the best from each contract and get it (or better) for the new CBA. Furthermore, I hope it happens sooner rather than later, so I can at some point at least hope I can bid to the CRJ side in Atlanta. I know it's easy for everyone to get riled up about the details of our contracts - everyone has a lot at stake, and the people that have been at both companies a lot longer than I have have much invested and much on the line. Let's all give each other some latitude and respect each other's situations. I think we are better off unified than at each other's throats over details. Let's just see what happens and discuss / vote when the time comes. Hopefully we will have good reason to be happy then. |
Originally Posted by drrhythm2
(Post 1174056)
I'm on the ERJ side and am fairly new - still in my first year. I also commute from Atlanta, and would have jumped at the bit to be on the ASA side. I'm only sorry the Delta contract has been so bad for ya'll - hopefully new and better things are coming soon.
I've got a number of good friends on the CRJ side as well, and all I can say is that I hope the two pilot groups can work together and take the best from each contract and get it (or better) for the new CBA. Furthermore, I hope it happens sooner rather than later, so I can at some point at least hope I can bid to the CRJ side in Atlanta. I know it's easy for everyone to get riled up about the details of our contracts - everyone has a lot at stake, and the people that have been at both companies a lot longer than I have have much invested and much on the line. Let's all give each other some latitude and respect each other's situations. I think we are better off unified than at each other's throats over details. Let's just see what happens and discuss / vote when the time comes. Hopefully we will have good reason to be happy then. |
I'm on the ERJ side and am fairly new - still in my first year. Having been through 3 of them including, and a merger in my previous life I can tell you that it's going to go anything but smooth at this point. It is common knowledge that the ASA MEC is refusing to talk to our MEC because we will not consider that piece of **** bidding system, put simply it will not work for the combined company. The company is actively mostly talking to the XJT MEC, because the ASA MEC are acting like children. They know that it has to work for both, but are refusing to compromise. So **** them, we got the votes to pass this thing if it's sweet enough, and if we see it in the next six months. Now SLI, it's a different story, with any luck it will be at least 2-3 years before we see a joint list. This is the reality of it all, now we can all go back to speculating on the 135's and future growth of the ERJ side. |
Seriously? goaround2000 you must be a pleasure to fly with. :rolleyes:
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Seriously? goaround2000 you must be a pleasure to fly with. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174106)
Well that explains I few things. I appreciate your fantasy on account of the fact that you probably don't know how to land the airplane yet, let alone understand how negotiations work.
Having been through 3 of them including, and a merger in my previous life I can tell you that it's going to go anything but smooth at this point. It is common knowledge that the ASA MEC is refusing to talk to our MEC because we will not consider that piece of **** bidding system, put simply it will not work for the combined company. The company is actively mostly talking to the XJT MEC, because the ASA MEC are acting like children. They know that it has to work for both, but are refusing to compromise. So **** them, we got the votes to pass this thing if it's sweet enough, and if we see it in the next six months. Now SLI, it's a different story, with any luck it will be at least 2-3 years before we see a joint list. This is the reality of it all, now we can all go back to speculating on the 135's and future growth of the ERJ side. |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174106)
Well that explains I few things. I appreciate your fantasy on account of the fact that you probably don't know how to land the airplane yet, let alone understand how negotiations work.
Having been through 3 of them including, and a merger in my previous life I can tell you that it's going to go anything but smooth at this point. It is common knowledge that the ASA MEC is refusing to talk to our MEC because we will not consider that piece of **** bidding system, put simply it will not work for the combined company. The company is actively mostly talking to the XJT MEC, because the ASA MEC are acting like children. They know that it has to work for both, but are refusing to compromise. So **** them, we got the votes to pass this thing if it's sweet enough, and if we see it in the next six months. Now SLI, it's a different story, with any luck it will be at least 2-3 years before we see a joint list. This is the reality of it all, now we can all go back to speculating on the 135's and future growth of the ERJ side. |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174138)
If you can't handle a little reality, then I suggest a different line of work, I hear Mary Kay is hiring!
Stay classy goaround, I'll hear you tomorrow on 121.5 telling everyone they're "on guard" |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174138)
If you can't handle a little reality, then I suggest a different line of work, I hear Mary Kay is hiring!
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Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174125)
Thank you for your contribution.
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174125)
If you can't handle a little reality, then I suggest a different line of work, I hear Mary Kay is hiring!.
and thank you for YOUR wonderful contribution. |
Originally Posted by Gunga Galunga
(Post 1174156)
Stay classy goaround, I'll hear you tomorrow on 121.5 telling everyone they're "on guard" goaround I bet your IAH based :rolleyes: |
I'm sure I'll learn to land the airplane sometime soon, but that would mean I'd have to put my Highlights for Kids magazine down first.
Have you ever read one of those? SO much fun! |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174106)
Well that explains I few things. I appreciate your fantasy on account of the fact that you probably don't know how to land the airplane yet, let alone understand how negotiations work.
I understand your position and your bitterness towards the process, but since you've decided to bring flying skill into the argument I've got $100 that says I can land this plane, or any other, better than you. I'm not 22 and this isn't my first jet - I've got other type ratings, including one single pilot in a twin turbine aircraft. You ever flown a jet single pilot? Be careful with your assumptions big fella ;). |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174106)
Well that explains I few things. I appreciate your fantasy on account of the fact that you probably don't know how to land the airplane yet, let alone understand how negotiations work.
I understand your position and your bitterness towards the process, but since you've decided to bring flying skill into the argument I've got $100 that says I can land this plane, or any other, better than you. I'm not 22 and this isn't my first jet - I've got other type ratings, including one single pilot in a twin turbine aircraft. You ever flown a jet single pilot? Be careful with your assumptions big fella ;). Fair enough, then show us all your mature, experienced side by either a) recognizing that clearly there are three agendas at play here. As mentioned earlier each leadership is looking out for their own, so utopia might be outside the realms of reality. b) An integration of this magnitude will take time, and will most likely go to arbitration. When it's all said and done if the unions did their job right; everyone will be unhappy in some shape or another. You're probably not going to see ATL for a few of years fences not withstanding. There is no happy holding hands on this one, it's two separate cultures. One ****ed off and ready to get it done for their constituents, and one brained washed into thinking that it's their way or the highway, not taking into account that the odds are heavily against them. About your landing challenge, no worries I'll figure out who you are (shouldn't be to hard at this point) and get on your pairing, so you can demonstrate your amazing skills landing the 145. Looking forward to it. |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174303)
Fair enough, then show us all your mature, experienced side.
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Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174303)
Fair enough, then show us all your mature, experienced side by either a) recognizing that clearly there are three agendas at play here. As mentioned earlier each leadership is looking out for their own, so utopia might be outside the realms of reality. b) An integration of this magnitude will take time, and will most likely go to arbitration. When it's all said and done if the unions did their job right; everyone will be unhappy in some shape or another. You're probably not going to see ATL for a few of years fences not withstanding.
There is no happy holding hands on this one, it's two separate cultures. One ****ed off and ready to get it done for their constituents, and one brained washed into thinking that it's their way or the highway, not taking into account that the odds are heavily against them. About your landing challenge, no worries I'll figure out who you are (shouldn't be to hard at this point) and get on your pairing, so you can demonstrate your amazing skills landing the 145. Looking forward to it. My post was simply about what I hope will happen. I already know it's naive to think the two pilot groups and MEC's will all get along, agree on everything, and present a unified front to management. I also know it's unreasonable to think that the process will be fast or entirely satisfactory in its outcome. That being said, my point was simply that being an Atlanta native, and having good friends at ASA, that I HOPE we can reach an amicable resolution as soon as possible. It's also that I understand how such a diverse group of people, at such different points in their careers, all with differing family situations and goals, are inevitably going to argue as they try and jockey for what they perceive to be best for their future. I've spent my time on the pipe and read reams of posts on PBS vs line bidding and differences in work rules and contracts ad nauseam. At some point I just want to relax, enjoy the flying for now to the extent I can, and wait and see what is presented to us. Again, hopefully sooner rather than later, and hopefully a significant improvement from what we have now on both sides. Send me a PM - we'll work on the flying thing. I've got a relief line in May for the first time, so I'm kinda excited about that small step up. Of course, that's also the first month where senior short call could get all four weekends as three days off. The question is, better to have a "senior" short call line with 4 three-day weekends off or a "junior" relief line and gamble with what the goofballs in scheduling will assign you? |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 1174303)
Fair enough, then show us all your mature, experienced side by either a) recognizing that clearly there are three agendas at play here. As mentioned earlier each leadership is looking out for their own, so utopia might be outside the realms of reality. b) An integration of this magnitude will take time, and will most likely go to arbitration. When it's all said and done if the unions did their job right; everyone will be unhappy in some shape or another. You're probably not going to see ATL for a few of years fences not withstanding.
There is no happy holding hands on this one, it's two separate cultures. One ****ed off and ready to get it done for their constituents, and one brained washed into thinking that it's their way or the highway, not taking into account that the odds are heavily against them. About your landing challenge, no worries I'll figure out who you are (shouldn't be to hard at this point) and get on your pairing, so you can demonstrate your amazing skills landing the 145. Looking forward to it. My post was simply about what I hope will happen. I already know it's naive to think the two pilot groups and MEC's will all get along, agree on everything, and present a unified front to management. I also know it's unreasonable to think that the process will be fast or entirely satisfactory in its outcome. That being said, my point was simply that being an Atlanta native, and having good friends at ASA, that I HOPE we can reach an amicable resolution as soon as possible. It's also that I understand how such a diverse group of people, at such different points in their careers, all with differing family situations and goals, are inevitably going to argue as they try and jockey for what they perceive to be best for their future. I've spent my time on the pipe and read reams of posts on PBS vs line bidding and differences in work rules and contracts ad nauseam. At some point I just want to relax, enjoy the flying for now to the extent I can, and wait and see what is presented to us. Again, hopefully sooner rather than later, and hopefully a significant improvement from what we have now on both sides. Send me a PM - we'll work on the flying thing. I've got a relief line in May for the first time, so I'm kinda excited about that small step up. Of course, that's also the first month where senior short call could get all four weekends as three days off. The question is, better to have a "senior" short call line with 4 three-day weekends off or a "junior" relief line and gamble with what the goofballs in scheduling will assign you? My frustration is not entirely directed at you, but rather the frame of mind that these guys are going to play nice. When I say these guys I mean the MEC's and the company, not the pilot groups. I have no ill will towards the ASA pilot group, I do think that they've been a bit institutionalized, but that's not their fault, but rather their elected representatives, who've managed to convince them that it's the job of the pilot to keep the airline profitable and competitive. |
Originally Posted by drrhythm2
(Post 1174313)
The question is, better to have a "senior" short call line with 4 three-day weekends off or a "junior" relief line and gamble with what the goofballs in scheduling will assign you?
There should be no question. You should bid a relief line hands down. As soon as the SLIW opens you can trade all month long to try to get a weekend off or two. Having a line will increase your QOL 10 fold. :cool: |
Originally Posted by hc0fitted
(Post 1174426)
There should be no question. You should bid a relief line hands down. As soon as the SLIW opens you can trade all month long to try to get a weekend off or two. Having a line will increase your QOL 10 fold. :cool:
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Originally Posted by drrhythm2
(Post 1174432)
Done and done. Bid nothing but relief lines. Now just waiting to see how far down the list I ended up. But I won't see my actual schedule for the next month til the 27th, or something, right?
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Originally Posted by hc0fitted
(Post 1174439)
No, it will be before the 27th because thats when the SLIW opens. Expect to see your schedule within the next couple of days. Oh and congrats on your first relief line enjoy it !
Now I just need someone to teach me how to use the SLIW and I'll be set ;). |
Originally Posted by drrhythm2
(Post 1174442)
Thanks man I'm excited. Commuting has been a Bi**h on reserve, and I'm not in my 20's anymore ;). I'm hoping to find a way to get a few key days off, and then I'll be a much happier camper.
Now I just need someone to teach me how to use the SLIW and I'll be set ;). |
Originally Posted by hc0fitted
(Post 1174426)
There should be no question. You should bid a relief line hands down. As soon as the SLIW opens you can trade all month long to try to get a weekend off or two. Having a line will increase your QOL 10 fold. :cool:
If you're considering a relief line, my advice was always to take a look at what's left in open time first. If you're a commuter, how useful are day trips and short 4-day trips that start at 5am on day one and end at 11pm on day four to you? I bid long call when I was on reserve and was a commuter and it worked better for me. You have to be able to get to base on 12 hours notice but if you live in a big city with a lot of flights, you can almost always make that work. |
Originally Posted by HB Pilot
(Post 1174463)
Full disclosure though, the pool numbers on weekends are almost always worse than weekdays. That's because the greedy lineholders like me trade those trips in the initial. You may be able to do a bad for worse and get a weekend off but odds are definitely against it.
If you're considering a relief line, my advice was always to take a look at what's left in open time first. If you're a commuter, how useful are day trips and short 4-day trips that start at 5am on day one and end at 11pm on day four to you? I bid long call when I was on reserve and was a commuter and it worked better for me. You have to be able to get to base on 12 hours notice but if you live in a big city with a lot of flights, you can almost always make that work. |
See, this is why I dont see why you guys enjoy line bidding. On our side, we bid once, we get what we want and thats it. No constant shuffling around. If you get a reserve line then you just bid again for what days off you want. If you are one of those guys thats likes the constant trying to make a "better" line, the. Theres open time or trading you can always do. I am not going to knock you guys for enjoying what you have, just wish you were willing to do trial runs with what we have to see what you can do with it.
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Originally Posted by Vertisch
(Post 1174478)
See, this is why I dont see why you guys enjoy line bidding. On our side, we bid once, we get what we want and thats it. No constant shuffling around. If you get a reserve line then you just bid again for what days off you want. If you are one of those guys thats likes the constant trying to make a "better" line, the. Theres open time or trading you can always do. I am not going to knock you guys for enjoying what you have, just wish you were willing to do trial runs with what we have to see what you can do with it.
Vertisch, I'm happy to look at and evaluate anything on its merits. I think most of the people I know on the ERJ side, at least those that frequent the forums, seem to have their minds made up. That being said, we in fact WILL BE using PBS for our phase II bidding, probably within a few months. So all of the mess that is the building of our relief lines and reserve will probably start to look a lot like yours soon. But I don't think you are going to have much luck with the primary lineholders. |
Originally Posted by Vertisch
(Post 1174478)
See, this is why I dont see why you guys enjoy line bidding. On our side, we bid once, we get what we want and thats it. No constant shuffling around. If you get a reserve line then you just bid again for what days off you want. If you are one of those guys thats likes the constant trying to make a "better" line, the. Theres open time or trading you can always do. I am not going to knock you guys for enjoying what you have, just wish you were willing to do trial runs with what we have to see what you can do with it.
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