Attention All First Officers
04-27-2012 | 04:01 PM
#41
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,077
Likes: 40
100% Totally Wrong.
Am I being abrupt here? Maybe. But it's possible that somebody has already signed up to spend 12 hours and $350 that they did not need to based on what you posted.
However...on this note the previous discussion about the language allowing use of an expired written at a 121 operator appears correct: It only applies to actual CA upgrade. An FO who is just getting an ATP and not completing PIC training would need a current written (within 24 months). The FAA did not really intend for this to happen, it probably just never occurred to them when they did the new reg. Sucks, but there it is.
I know some airlines have already handed out FO ATP's...I bet some of those had expired writtens and eventually the FAA will circle back around and fix that. I bet some folks will getting a letter in the mail.
Am I being abrupt here? Maybe. But it's possible that somebody has already signed up to spend 12 hours and $350 that they did not need to based on what you posted.
However...on this note the previous discussion about the language allowing use of an expired written at a 121 operator appears correct: It only applies to actual CA upgrade. An FO who is just getting an ATP and not completing PIC training would need a current written (within 24 months). The FAA did not really intend for this to happen, it probably just never occurred to them when they did the new reg. Sucks, but there it is.
I know some airlines have already handed out FO ATP's...I bet some of those had expired writtens and eventually the FAA will circle back around and fix that. I bet some folks will getting a letter in the mail.
I took my test prior to being hired by a 121 carrier. I then took my test on my own, part 91 through a DPE. At the time of my practical my written had LONG expired. The DPE had no issue with it and it was never kicked back by the FAA. This was a few years ago.
I am not referencing a reg, simply stating what happened in my case. I would venture to guess that the majority of FOs with expired writtens getting their ATPs through their air carrier will not have any issues.
04-27-2012 | 11:58 PM
#42
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: CRJ right
No doubt if you can't pass a check ride at this point it's time to reconsider your carrier choice, buck up and study.
04-28-2012 | 04:02 AM
#43
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,931
Likes: 701
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Just throwing out my example.
I took my test prior to being hired by a 121 carrier. I then took my test on my own, part 91 through a DPE. At the time of my practical my written had LONG expired. The DPE had no issue with it and it was never kicked back by the FAA. This was a few years ago.
I am not referencing a reg, simply stating what happened in my case. I would venture to guess that the majority of FOs with expired writtens getting their ATPs through their air carrier will not have any issues.
I took my test prior to being hired by a 121 carrier. I then took my test on my own, part 91 through a DPE. At the time of my practical my written had LONG expired. The DPE had no issue with it and it was never kicked back by the FAA. This was a few years ago.
I am not referencing a reg, simply stating what happened in my case. I would venture to guess that the majority of FOs with expired writtens getting their ATPs through their air carrier will not have any issues.
That was just one DPE, I could see how that could happen.
But if (when) the FAA notices this (if they haven't already) they'll tell all the airlines to comply with the reg as written, and there is precedent for them to require anyone who already took the practical with an expired written to go take another written. I'd almost guarantee they will do that for liability reasons...doesn't cost them anything.
I'm not advocating that those with an expired written go take another one...I think the worst that will happen is they would just make you take it after the fact. I don't think you would have to re-take the checkride in any event.
04-28-2012 | 04:12 AM
#44
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,931
Likes: 701
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Forgive me, but I'm not understanding what can and can't be done with an expired ATP written.
I took the ATP written in 2007, but I have yet to be employed at a 121 operator.
If I were hired tomorrow by a 121 operation, would my expired test be available for use, or must I retake it since it has expired and I've not been employed by a 121?
Also, if an airline says I must have the ATP written completed to be eligible for employment, would my expired one count or would I need to take it again.
I took the ATP written in 2007, but I have yet to be employed at a 121 operator.
If I were hired tomorrow by a 121 operation, would my expired test be available for use, or must I retake it since it has expired and I've not been employed by a 121?
Also, if an airline says I must have the ATP written completed to be eligible for employment, would my expired one count or would I need to take it again.
For an FO ATP, the reg is written so as to require a current written. This is probably an unintended consequence, nobody caught this when they added the FO ATP requirement.
For an upgrade to CA, an expired written is good enough. So if you get hired now and upgrade in Aug 2013 you might get away without re-taking it. But odds are you will need a current one just to get hired and also for the FO ATP.
04-28-2012 | 04:15 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Just throwing out my example.
I took my test prior to being hired by a 121 carrier. I then took my test on my own, part 91 through a DPE. At the time of my practical my written had LONG expired. The DPE had no issue with it and it was never kicked back by the FAA. This was a few years ago.
I am not referencing a reg, simply stating what happened in my case. I would venture to guess that the majority of FOs with expired writtens getting their ATPs through their air carrier will not have any issues.
I took my test prior to being hired by a 121 carrier. I then took my test on my own, part 91 through a DPE. At the time of my practical my written had LONG expired. The DPE had no issue with it and it was never kicked back by the FAA. This was a few years ago.
I am not referencing a reg, simply stating what happened in my case. I would venture to guess that the majority of FOs with expired writtens getting their ATPs through their air carrier will not have any issues.
That was just one DPE, I could see how that could happen.
But if (when) the FAA notices this (if they haven't already) they'll tell all the airlines to comply with the reg as written, and there is precedent for them to require anyone who already took the practical with an expired written to go take another written. I'd almost guarantee they will do that for liability reasons...doesn't cost them anything.
I'm not advocating that those with an expired written go take another one...I think the worst that will happen is they would just make you take it after the fact. I don't think you would have to re-take the checkride in any event.
01-27-2015 | 07:34 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
From: ERJ CA
It won't matter, they'll catch it. A guy in my class at Mesa had his checkride invalidated a month after the fact for his written expiring at the end of July after we'd started class. He had to go take the ATP training course at his expense and retake the written, oral and checkride before he could start IOE.
01-27-2015 | 07:53 PM
#47
pants on the ground
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
From: back seat
01-27-2015 | 08:44 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
How did this thread get resurrected after almost 3 years of hibernation and/or death. How about we let it die again.
01-28-2015 | 03:12 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat
I am more comfortable doing it right the first time around and not worrying about the future. Some people are looking for DPE's who will allow them to use an expired written just because they currently work at a 121. It sounds shady to me.
It won't matter, they'll catch it. A guy in my class at Mesa had his checkride invalidated a month after the fact for his written expiring at the end of July after we'd started class. He had to go take the ATP training course at his expense and retake the written, oral and checkride before he could start IOE.
Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat
I am more comfortable doing it right the first time around and not worrying about the future. Some people are looking for DPE's who will allow them to use an expired written just because they currently work at a 121. It sounds shady to me.
It won't matter, they'll catch it. A guy in my class at Mesa had his checkride invalidated a month after the fact for his written expiring at the end of July after we'd started class. He had to go take the ATP training course at his expense and retake the written, oral and checkride before he could start IOE.
02-22-2015 | 12:36 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
From: ERJ CA
Exact same thing happened to a classmate of mine at Mesa, he had to redo both the oral and checkride.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
