Originally Posted by Luv2Rotate (Post 1178018)

Industry leading wages? I hate to break it to you, but 9L, XJ, end 9E payrates actually surpass yours at maturity. Where does that get us, CH11. If you want a ticket to the dance, by all means join us.

Originally Posted by Redraider217 (Post 1178044)

Can someone help a noob with the abbreviations?? 9L? 9E?

CH11?

Originally Posted by Redraider217 (Post 1178044)

Can someone help a noob with the abbreviations?? 9L? 9E?

CH11?

Originally Posted by Redraider217 (Post 1178044)

Can someone help a noob with the abbreviations?? 9L? 9E?

CH11?

Originally Posted by SrfNFly227 (Post 1178060)

XJ = Mesaba
9E = Pinnacle
9L = I believe to be Colgan, based on the fact that they go along with the other two

CH11 = Chapter 11 bankruptcy (other option would be Chapter 7)

And while I wouldn't blame only the pilot contract for the Pinnacle bankruptcy, it was certainly a contributing factor. And I'm not even talking about the pay rates. Those weren't excessive. I would blame the training costs associated with people switching aircraft.

Here is what I don't understand about contract negotiations and airlines, but regionals specifically. Why does everyone believe they should have a better contract than the competition, or even a better contract than they already have? At the major level, at least the company can up ticket prices to bring in more revenue. But, at the regional level, income is stuck at a predetermined level. If you shoot too high, your company can no longer be profitable.

I would love to see every pilot in the country fly under the same contract. I don't mean on the same seniority list, or the same company. Just the same contract. That would take labor costs out of the picture and put blame solely on management's ability to actually manage. Go bankrupt and guess what, can't blame labor. Tough to talk a judge in to concessions when costs are exactly the same as those at all of the competition.

Originally Posted by Red97Vette (Post 1177751)

I would love a great contract, but I also realize that the industry leading wages usually don't last long, or you get to see your flying go to other places. Let's be realistic and get something better, perhaps not what I hear all these xjet guys want though. I'm not a lifer, but 6 years is enough as an FO I don't care what regional your at. We are all basically contract workers, when u get to be the most expensive contractor, guess what..your customer goes elsewhere.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT (Post 1177755)

Best quote yet. Hand them out to freezingflykid and all the other "almost 3 year FO"s. Seems to be a common trend among them.

I think our management has them right where they want them, drinking the Kol-aid.

Originally Posted by Red97Vette (Post 1177959)

Expressjet was headed for bankruptcy, you were expensive and continental pulled a lot of flying, gee I wonder...your industry leading contract must have had nothing what so ever to do with that.

Originally Posted by Red97Vette (Post 1177959)

Expressjet got bought, yet they still have the desire to want to sink the company that bailed them out of having to take concessions. No one gets a better contract in BK and now y'all are not headed for it, that is unless you want to sink ASA too. And for what? A few years of another "industry leading" contract only to be praying you dont go BK when mainline drops you years down the road?

Originally Posted by Red97Vette (Post 1177959)

Your a contractor, in fact a sub contractor, and yet you demand to be paid as if there is no one else that mainline can turn to for a regional feed. GoJets is the classic example, or mesa, or whoever.
Growth = movement and better schedules, and thats exactly what will not happen when you get to be the most expensive. Im not saying we go the route of being broke and flying like GoJets, but we are far from that...lets get a better contract, but not one that blows everything everyone else has away. In a perfect world we would be getting paid the same as mainline and have 100% job security, blah blah blah. Get over it, your at a regional, if your a lifer...sorry, but most of us want to move on and not sit as FOs for a decade either. Getting paid over 100k a year (left seat)...and thats only after 10 years isn't bad. But its never enough...

Originally Posted by Red97Vette (Post 1178061)

exactly.

Profits are razor thin now on the regional level. Majors have figured out they way over paid 10 years ago and now the pendulum has swung the total opposite way. Pilot wages make up a significant chunk of the budget. You want industry leading wages? Go to the majors, the Regionals just surviving will be a miracle. I dont know about you, but im not about to strike, most came to the regional level with expectations that wages will suck til they get to the majors or somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 1178023)

Man what u said is so wrong. Please don't blame the pilots wages on our bankruptcy. It was inept management, NOT the pilots contract.

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy (Post 1178067)

What are you hearing all these greedy XJT guys want? I'm an XJT guy and I told you a few posts back what would make me happy. Give me back the concessions I gave up 3 years ago, a set annual cost of living/inflation adjustment, minor changes to the reserve rules and no PBS. Hardly sounds like asking for the moon to me. But then again I haven't been brainwashed by ASA/Skywest management yet.:rolleyes:



That's Captain FreezingflyBOY to you, SIR! If you're going to misrepresent me, at least get my damn name right! And for the record, I haven't been an "almost 3 year FO" in over 4 years, but good try:D

Seriously though, read and comprehend much? Where did you get the idea I'm in the "concede to succeed" camp? My position throughout this discussion is that our JCBA can and SHOULD be better. Now this Red97Vette character...read on.



Well if you were familiar with the facts, you would realize just how ludicrous that statement is. Continental lost their shirt bringing CHQ on and quickly realized what a good thing they had with XJT. If we were so outrageously expensive, why were those aircraft (minus the charter fleet) back flying for Continental within 2 years while CHQ's COEX fleet went from 30 airplanes to 8? But why let a thing like facts cloud your argument.



We are not in bankruptcy, L-ASA or L-XJT! We (L-XJT) haven't been headed for it since the dark days of 2009. But you're right, we sit around in our posh crewrooms in Houston, Chicago, Cleveland and Newark counting our fat stacks of cash and sipping Pellegrino, plotting how we can take ASA down. Face it, we have you surrounded.:rolleyes: Another idiotic statement. The last thing any of us wants is a bankruptcy. If you're gonna gut my contract, I at least want a say in it, not some bankruptcy court. But evidently we don't even need a judge for that, they have some of you CRJ guys so convinced that the sky is falling that you seem intent to gut it for us!

I don't know where this idea that the ERJ side is are more expensive because of our pilot pay came from. I can only assume it's more company kool-aid and brainwashing by your MEC. If the ERJ side is so expensive, why is that where all the growth and hiring is going? Why not add more CRJs to the UAX operation and park ERJs? Everything I've ever heard is that the CRJ side is more expensive. From what I have witnessed firsthand, it's not because of our paychecks, it's because the rest of the operation is so inefficient over there. Scheduling: Could not be less efficient. Maintenance: Spare parts? Who needs 'em! We'll just take a delay or cancel! SkedPlus and Rainmaker: garbage. It's not an automated system if everything has to go through a human scheduler or pay analyst to be done right!



If all you care about is growth, go fly your beloved 700/900s for free then YOU can laugh in the face of all those GoJet goons when you tout your phenomenal GROWTH. Cause who needs money when you got GROWTH. You know that's a deal mainline just couldn't pass up! You act like you are the only airline that's ever had flying shifted around on you. We've been there too bubba, ala Continental's foray into slumming with CHQ and Colgan. Our contract is STILL head and shoulders better than both of them yet Colgan will cease to be in about 6 months (respect) and CHQ is fighting to get their contract out of the toilet while they continue to lose flying. Hmmmm... Again, those pesky facts...

Listen, here is the bottom line: Even if the CRJ guys JUST took our contract with no modifications, it would be an improvement in YOUR pay and QOL. Most guys here are fine with our current contract (with the usual minor gripes here and there of course, we're all pilots, right?). But NO ONE I know on the ERJ side is willing to accept LESS than what we have RIGHT NOW. Period. Myself included. I don't think that's asking too much to keep what we have, do you? Of course you always aim high in these situations and we all have our wishlist of improvements we'd like to see but at a minimum, keep management out of my pockets. That's all I'm asking.