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-   -   Exceptions to H.R. 5900 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/69465-exceptions-h-r-5900-a.html)

hockeypilot44 08-12-2012 06:50 PM


Originally Posted by Cruz5350 (Post 1244427)
How about when Delta landed on the taxiway in ATL or NW overshot their destination you can point fingers all you want....

Got it. You never want to work at Delta.

sandrich 08-12-2012 08:24 PM


Originally Posted by lolwut (Post 1244236)
Gulfstream enables pilots who wouldn't be able to otherwise cut it to buy their way into an airline job. Getting to 1500TT and successfully interviewing is tough and a lot of people can't do it.

It isn't anything to do with Gulfstream's training itself, its that it (and other places like it) allow those on the lower end of the scale to slip through the cracks and become qualified enough to get into an airliner. Not to say there aren't some exceptional pilots that came through Gulfstream, but it also enables those without the natural skill/ability/drive/etc to become a successful airline pilot the chance at being one anyways.

Completely agree (and I'm a current "Silver Stream" pilot). I wouldnt call it a correlation, but Gulfstream is definitely a common denominator in the previously listed regional accidents. Dont get me wrong, there are in my opinion a lot of great guys/pilots here. But Gulfstream, and all regionals nonetheless, dont teach you how to not be an idiot. It's is assumed that you know how to be a mature professional pilot when you show up to class. Pass your tests and checkride, and you make it to the line. Is Gulfstream's training the reason why the guys in the Pinnacle 3701 accident flamed out/core locked both engines at FL410 and crashed? Of course not. But I'd agree that the younger, lower time pilot group that the Stream attracts will make it more likely that idiots like this(pardon the term) will slip through the cracks later on in their career and possibly take other peoples lives... Mistakes will happen, but I think HR 5900 definitely could help mitigate them.

SiShane 08-12-2012 08:53 PM

I think hr5900 is good for the industry but why haven't they put out a grandfather clause yet? Seems like none of regionals know what they are gonna do with hiring.

SnoJet440 08-12-2012 08:54 PM

In the late 1960's, airlines were hiring low time, zero time guys to fly complex jet aircraft. It was the dawn of the jet age and there was a pilot shortage. The difference between then and recent history is these individuals were mentored by experienced pilots from the "High and the Mighty" generation. Guys with experience flying NDBs as high tech equipment. Currently we don't have that mentoring capacity. Furloughing at the majors brought on by RJ advancement at the regionals has created an experience gap. Fresh new captains with no real life experience paired with fo's from pilot mills has been and continues to be the norm. Very different times indeed.

Low time new hires is not the entire problem. It has worked in the past. The combined experience of the cockpit is what is important. The airlines need to cherish longevity, and experience. It creates an environment of education and stability.

Cruz5350 08-12-2012 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1244436)
Got it. You never want to work at Delta.

Fail to see the correlation in pointing out errors of mainline and me wanting to never work there. My point is this, there is many folks jumping on a bandwagon to throw these guys under the bus. This is an example for everyone to learn from, no matter your experience level complacency is dangerous.

Cruz5350 08-12-2012 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by SnoJet440 (Post 1244494)
In the late 1960's, airlines were hiring low time, zero time guys to fly complex jet aircraft. It was the dawn of the jet age and there was a pilot shortage. The difference between then and recent history is these individuals were mentored by experienced pilots from the "High and the Mighty" generation. Guys with experience flying NDBs as high tech equipment. Currently we don't have that mentoring capacity. Furloughing at the majors brought on by RJ advancement at the regionals has created an experience gap. Fresh new captains with no real life experience paired with fo's from pilot mills has been and continues to be the norm. Very different times indeed.

Low time new hires is not the entire problem. It has worked in the past. The combined experience of the cockpit is what is important. The airlines need to cherish longevity, and experience. It creates an environment of education and stability.

+1 (filler)

PerpetualFlyer 08-12-2012 09:32 PM


Originally Posted by Cruz5350 (Post 1244427)
How about when Delta landed on the taxiway in ATL or NW overshot their destination you can point fingers all you want....

Did they, or did they not land at the correct destination though?

coryk 08-12-2012 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by PerpetualFlyer (Post 1244512)
Did they, or did they not land at the correct destination though?

Ummm, on a taxiway at the world's busiest airport. :eek:

coryk 08-12-2012 09:44 PM


Originally Posted by SiShane (Post 1244493)
I think hr5900 is good for the industry but why haven't they put out a grandfather clause yet? Seems like none of regionals know what they are gonna do with hiring.

I think the law (HR5900) forbids a grandfather clause. I might be wrong though.

hockeypilot44 08-13-2012 02:36 AM


Originally Posted by coryk (Post 1244517)
Ummm, on a taxiway at the world's busiest airport. :eek:

They did it in the middle of the night during a medical emergency while doing a sidestep maneuver to land on a closer runway to the terminal. They realized they were not lined up right, but decided that the taxiway landing was a better option than going around. IMHO, the wrong decision, but I was not there. They knew before they touched down that they were landing on a taxiway and that it was clear.


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