Special Eaglewire 09/12/2012
09-12-2012 | 04:45 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Good luck. Just remember you are just a number. You and your flying can be outsource/transterred. You do work for an outsource carrier that can and will be under bid. Outsource carriers are here today and gone the next. Even though eagle is own by AMR, all you have to do is look at comair and see your future if you are not sold off.
09-12-2012 | 04:52 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
Those of you at eagle that support the MEC and think they're are not in with management, please tell me as of ten minutes ago you are at least questioning them. For those of you that don't work for Eagle, the TA was agreed to today magically the same day as the Skywest flying.
Below is taken from our web boards today. The copies of emails I left out because of the names and phone #'s being listed.. But it was disturbing. Flat out lying about having late night snacks after dinner to disguise the alcohol so they could be reimbursed with our union dues.
Union Dues; They Booze & We Lose
In January of 2012 the MEC meet to discuss numerous pilot issues. One of these topics was the purchase of alcohol by union leaders when they attended a group meal that was to be paid for by union dues monies. This was brought about in part by the shock of a newly elected LEC representative who was attending his first of these group meals. He was surprised by the free flowing alcohol and the numerous bottles of expensive wines that continued to appear - as if by magic - on the table throughout the evening. He remarked that he would have to fly four hours to pay for just one bottle. This was followed by the many shots of Patron to round out the event.
This prompted a resolution by a few MEC members to stop the excess. The resolution was not well received by union representatives who believe that the nightly cocktail is a well-earned perk of a union volunteer. After much debate the resolution was passed by a 9 to 4 vote and made the law by which your MEC agreed to live with in the future. A simple rule: “do not use Eagle pilot dues to pay for alcohol when union members participate in a group meal.” At no time was this attempt to force moral values on union officials. If you want to drink, buy it yourself and enjoy. But it doesn’t stop there, it gets better!
With rules there comes accountability, and soon the union secretary-treasurer asked that after a group meal the person who would claim reimbursement to submit a detailed receipt of the meal. This would be a simple check and balance to the rule. Easy enough right? Not on your life. The outrage from the union leadership, your negotiating committee and some committee members was alarming. They vocally objected the need to provide a detailed receipt and saw that as questioning their ethics. Your leaders then went on to claim that the restaurants in the DFW area where they choose to dine do not provide detailed receipts. As a result this would require them to eat at location unfitting their status a union official.
Now that it is clear that your union leadership is using every opportunity to avoid the any means of financial oversight. What will they think of next? Well, I will tell you. Buy all the booze they want and hide the expense under a different name. Why not call it “snacks.” Clever, I’ll say. Just tell everyone that they are performing the work of the union late at night and needed some snacks to sustain them.
What is tragic is that we know this is not a one off event. It is happened multiple times and from the information that we are receiving this conduct has continued unchecked for some time. All of it with the approval of the MEC chairman. As more details become available we will share them with you.
In January of 2012 the MEC meet to discuss numerous pilot issues. One of these topics was the purchase of alcohol by union leaders when they attended a group meal that was to be paid for by union dues monies. This was brought about in part by the shock of a newly elected LEC representative who was attending his first of these group meals. He was surprised by the free flowing alcohol and the numerous bottles of expensive wines that continued to appear - as if by magic - on the table throughout the evening. He remarked that he would have to fly four hours to pay for just one bottle. This was followed by the many shots of Patron to round out the event.
This prompted a resolution by a few MEC members to stop the excess. The resolution was not well received by union representatives who believe that the nightly cocktail is a well-earned perk of a union volunteer. After much debate the resolution was passed by a 9 to 4 vote and made the law by which your MEC agreed to live with in the future. A simple rule: “do not use Eagle pilot dues to pay for alcohol when union members participate in a group meal.” At no time was this attempt to force moral values on union officials. If you want to drink, buy it yourself and enjoy. But it doesn’t stop there, it gets better!
With rules there comes accountability, and soon the union secretary-treasurer asked that after a group meal the person who would claim reimbursement to submit a detailed receipt of the meal. This would be a simple check and balance to the rule. Easy enough right? Not on your life. The outrage from the union leadership, your negotiating committee and some committee members was alarming. They vocally objected the need to provide a detailed receipt and saw that as questioning their ethics. Your leaders then went on to claim that the restaurants in the DFW area where they choose to dine do not provide detailed receipts. As a result this would require them to eat at location unfitting their status a union official.
Now that it is clear that your union leadership is using every opportunity to avoid the any means of financial oversight. What will they think of next? Well, I will tell you. Buy all the booze they want and hide the expense under a different name. Why not call it “snacks.” Clever, I’ll say. Just tell everyone that they are performing the work of the union late at night and needed some snacks to sustain them.
What is tragic is that we know this is not a one off event. It is happened multiple times and from the information that we are receiving this conduct has continued unchecked for some time. All of it with the approval of the MEC chairman. As more details become available we will share them with you.
A call to the establishment for a detailed receipt revealed this:
09-12-2012 | 05:39 PM
#83
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Yes. It's exactly what happened to ExpressJet. As soon as CAL was contractually allowed to pull 25% of Expressjet's flying, they did. It immediately went to the lowest bidder..CHQ. Compass is nowhere near the size of AE, so that's apples to oranges. And ASA did lose CRJ200 flying, but found a home for them under the United banner.
Unfortunately, it's the nature of the whipsaw game.
Unfortunately, it's the nature of the whipsaw game.
Last edited by johnso29; 09-12-2012 at 05:50 PM.
09-12-2012 | 05:56 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
From: forever fo
Yes. It's exactly what happened to ExpressJet. As soon as CAL was contractually allowed to pull 25% of Expressjet's flying, they did. It immediately went to the lowest bidder..CHQ. Compass is nowhere near the size of AE, so that's apples to oranges. And ASA did lose CRJ200 flying, but found a home for them under the United banner.
Unfortunately, it's the nature of the whipsaw game.
Unfortunately, it's the nature of the whipsaw game.
09-12-2012 | 07:21 PM
#85
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Didn't a Committee Chair basically waive Eagle's scope?
If a GCC waived Section 1, is that representationally appropriate?
If a GCC waived Section 1, is that representationally appropriate?
09-12-2012 | 08:41 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Your not the first person to mention the 'recognized brand'. I honestly believe the traveling public (except for seasoned business travelers who know their carry on won't fit on an 'American Eagle' flight) actually doesn't know the difference or who American Eagle is. They book a ticket on AA and then wonder why they are getting on a small plane. I guess my point is I don't believe the 'brand' or 'recognition' of Eagle had squat to do with AMR's boardroom discussions.....
Last edited by LineHolder; 09-12-2012 at 08:43 PM. Reason: iPad keyboard typing
09-12-2012 | 08:50 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 0
From: AN124 FE
Eagle is facing some tough odds I agree, however you need to look at some of the things objectively too. Both xpjet and ASA made it out ok. Comair is very unique due to their contract, strike, etc. Eagle is fairly senior, but we also keep getting adjusted to an industry average in many places. We also are dealing with this while AA adds 125 new rjs and has options for turbo props on top of that. This is during a time that hiring is not all that simple either for regionals, and is only going to get worst. On top of that the company is saying they will spin off Eagle so it can bid on other airlines flying. I am not 100% sure this pilot group is doomed, and that many possible outcomes are ahead. One realistic one is we go into history books, but its not the only one. The longer it all takes the better for us. Just being objective, not saying it is the case, just want to keep the conversation and peoples minds open. Saying oh look Comair is an ignorant stance. Each situation is unique in its own way, and the out comes for each have been different.
09-12-2012 | 08:59 PM
#88
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
My comment to follow is by no means an intent to take away the seriousness or take away my grave disappointment of the announcement or upset those in LAX...but...
...To keep it in perspective and to add some optimism. AE does 1800 flights a day currently. Please tell me what airline(s) are capable of taking over HALF, or even a QUARTER, of our flying? 1/4 of our current flying would be 450 flights a day. One quarter of our flying is a TALL ORDER for AMR to find a regional or regionals to take over.
If we lose 1/8 of our flying, 225 flights a day, maybe that is more realistic ( I dont know) but it seems even SKW, 9E, GOJET, EV/ASQ, combined would have a hard time taking more than 225 flights a day, due to the new pilot rules (duty/flight/1500hours + retirements).
With the upcoming flight duty rules and major retirements, I "personally" do see the hiring and recalls at AE. I think for the next 6-12 months, we will feel like this place is downhill or stagnant. But we do A LOT of flying and I just cant see more 1/8 of our flying being outsourced. And even after this announcement I think I feel optimistic. But we WILL be going for a ride.
I think the timing is PERFECT for AMR...to implement their SCARE TACTICS by announcing outsourcing. And I DO believe ALPA and Team Tony are on board with AMR to help them with their timing and scare tactics, and not help pilots like Team Tony is SUPPOSE to be doing. AE pilots will be voting on a TA very soon, whats better than to have a public announcement of outsourcing? Also, LAX is very senior and AMR may possibly think that most Captains there (who are "expensive") wont want to commute or move, and they will resign equaling a cost savings to AMR. I personally will put up a fight like APA did and hope majority of AE pilots understand that we have 1800 flights a day and it just isnt going to disappear or go to another carrier.
Garton wrote a ~10 page article to Washington DC expressing his great concern for a pilot shortage and it was his intent through writing that document to show (congress?) that if they implement the flight time, duty time, 1500 hour rule, AE will be hurting for pilot staff.
I think that AMR knows that with what their interested in doing for flying, they see the writing on the way and need one or two OTHER regionals to supplement AE cus AE simply wont have pilots.
...To keep it in perspective and to add some optimism. AE does 1800 flights a day currently. Please tell me what airline(s) are capable of taking over HALF, or even a QUARTER, of our flying? 1/4 of our current flying would be 450 flights a day. One quarter of our flying is a TALL ORDER for AMR to find a regional or regionals to take over.
If we lose 1/8 of our flying, 225 flights a day, maybe that is more realistic ( I dont know) but it seems even SKW, 9E, GOJET, EV/ASQ, combined would have a hard time taking more than 225 flights a day, due to the new pilot rules (duty/flight/1500hours + retirements).
With the upcoming flight duty rules and major retirements, I "personally" do see the hiring and recalls at AE. I think for the next 6-12 months, we will feel like this place is downhill or stagnant. But we do A LOT of flying and I just cant see more 1/8 of our flying being outsourced. And even after this announcement I think I feel optimistic. But we WILL be going for a ride.
I think the timing is PERFECT for AMR...to implement their SCARE TACTICS by announcing outsourcing. And I DO believe ALPA and Team Tony are on board with AMR to help them with their timing and scare tactics, and not help pilots like Team Tony is SUPPOSE to be doing. AE pilots will be voting on a TA very soon, whats better than to have a public announcement of outsourcing? Also, LAX is very senior and AMR may possibly think that most Captains there (who are "expensive") wont want to commute or move, and they will resign equaling a cost savings to AMR. I personally will put up a fight like APA did and hope majority of AE pilots understand that we have 1800 flights a day and it just isnt going to disappear or go to another carrier.
Garton wrote a ~10 page article to Washington DC expressing his great concern for a pilot shortage and it was his intent through writing that document to show (congress?) that if they implement the flight time, duty time, 1500 hour rule, AE will be hurting for pilot staff.
I think that AMR knows that with what their interested in doing for flying, they see the writing on the way and need one or two OTHER regionals to supplement AE cus AE simply wont have pilots.
Last edited by bgmann; 09-12-2012 at 09:09 PM.
09-12-2012 | 09:03 PM
#89
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 690
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These retirement numbers ASSUME that EVERY airline pilot at these airlines retires on his/her 65th birthday. MANY will retire early, so these numbers are conservative!
This list is just for a FEW airlines. Not including all age 65 pilots.
09-12-2012 | 09:15 PM
#90
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
I want to see these pics you tried to upload. I have been on this for awhile trying to also find evidence. I know of an ALPA guy (who I wont mention his name, but I will call him Dick--or APC monitors can call him Richard, you choose). Dick was in DFW and knew his friends were at recurrent and drove them to an expensive restaurant and Dick's friends commented the next day in class that Dick paid for their dinner and that Dick had a cool rental car.
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