Ding ding ding...we have a winner!!! Might as well take the bonus check with it.

Look guys we a powerless in this situation. These are the pay rates voted in or NOT. We have NO absolutely NO power in this situation.

I say take the money, network and get a new job else where. Or take the money and get typed in something. I've been an FO here for 6 years...and I'm tired like everyone else. But now this is a game of chess. One move affects another. For my career, I need to stay current, get my ATP and support my family. To vote YES, it gives me a 2 - 2.5 year buffer to get my name in somewhere. To vote NO, I have only 1 year! That's just plain stupid to do career suicide. A lot of us have a lot of money invested in our careers from education.

TIME is the key component in this situation...not money. I'll make my money at another airline...but you need TIME for the doors to start opening again. AND you need to stay current...

But hey...if you want to be stupid and commit career suicide and shut it down in an economy like this and try to find another job...that's cool. Not very smart though...

It's a fight to get to the top. I can care less about Eagle, ASA, Skywest, or any other regional payscale right now. I just want to be current when the doors start opening up and make my money there. Because I hear all this talk about "Pilot Brotherhood"...psh!!! Them same folks that are no longer at 9E talking crap about shutting down the airline with that "If I were still there..." crap Will stab you in the back to gain seniorty at the next airline. True talk. And... This talk about this TA will affect my next regional job...NEWSFLASH!!! It already is and it will always be that way. It's foolish to think regional pilots will gain any ground. You gain and you get cut... It's been the trend for YEARS!!! Wake up already!!! If there was a "Pilot Brotherhood" maybe we can get some gain some traction...BUT WE ARE ALL TO GREEDY!!! And we will never come together...So...I work until I make my goal...hopefully. (There will probably be some mainline guy that will respond to this and say "Boy with an attitude like that...you will never make it to a Major." And before you respond...I say look in the mirror because you were the same way when you flew at the regionals.)

I love my 9E crews...but the ride is over. All we need is TIME to move on to our next airline kids...signing off rant over...

Okay, good points, but what IF you pass this TA and Delta winds you down anyway? Look at Comair. They took concessions and still the lights went dark on them. Then your currency is still in jeopardy. If you're hired at another regional right now you'll get your ATP ie Eagle who will also pay a 5K bonus and gain some seniority. I have no dog in this fight, and I know you have to vote whats right for you and your family but look at all variables and what Delta has done in the past to make an informed decision. I hope every 9E, 9L, XJ land on their feet elsewhere regardless how they vote. Good luck.

The bridge agreement prevents us from going the way of Comair in the medium term. Long term 8 - 10 years+ is anyone's guess. Stop saying we are Comair, we are not Comair.

We know...

How do you propose to do that last part on the garbage wages being proposed? You're okay with working for over 15% less than 6 year FOs at similar airlines? Where do you draw the line? Are you willing to work for minimum wage so long as you have more time to chase the brass ring? You lament the absence of brotherhood in this profession while showing no interest for anyone but yourself.

The judge is duty bound to help the company survive. If the TA passes the company still has to get the judges approval. If the TA fails the company still has to get the judges approval to shut down.

Being that the MEC has voted for this contract, the judge will in all likeliness not let the company shut down and force this contract on us. However it will not include any the bridge agreements.

Think before you vote.

Their airline is in bankruptcy and is on the verge of being shut down. Yes they will be flying for less when compared to healthy regionals who are profitable. Look what happened to legacy pay as each of the legacy carriers went into BK. Hard to toe the line or raise the bar when you are flying for a BK carrier on the verge of shutdown. I think you need to open up your eyes and be realistic about the real situtation at 9E.

How do you propose to do that last part on the garbage wages being proposed?

I will cut my living expenses. It's not that hard...

You're okay with working for over 15% less than 6 year FOs at similar airlines?

Yep..I have no issues. QOL is another part of the equation. I do not wish to commute to any other regionals bases. I'm just fine where I am. You seemed to forget that I will be working at 100% less if I vote NO in 1 year. 15% doesn't sound that bad when you compare.

Where do you draw the line?

I didn't draw the line...PNCL/Delta drew it for me. Now I have to work for less and work hard to move the next part of my career. It's just that simple...

Are you willing to work for minimum wage so long as you have more time to chase the brass ring?

You have to give a little to make a little more. Simple economics...

You lament the absence of brotherhood in this profession while showing no interest for anyone but yourself.

Until ALPA comes to my door and has dinner with me and my family...then they are no brothers to me. They are just a union that collects a check from me monthly. Ha!!!! My own company crews won't hold the hotel van for me knowing I'm 3-5 minutes behind them. You really think there is a brotherhood in this industry...Everyone including yourself is all about ME MYSELF AND I. Remember our slogan "Seniorty is King" it's not "Together We March". Last time I checked...We all have ONE seniority number and we ALL do whatever it takes to keep it High.


Hope that answers your questions...let's try to keep it real...

I think they mean they didn't want to file another 1113 because they probably knew they were close to a TA.

Yep, it's not that we are ok with the pay cut. It sucks and we don't want it. Even if we turn it down and get shut down, then what. Are people going to actually remember what we did a few years from now? If we get shut down, the flying will go to another regional. Most of us will go there and start at year one again. This is not we are taking a pay cut to get more flying or grow. It's "sign this here, or a possible shut down, and the flying will go somewhere else"

Of course not. I just thought it was interesting that you were complaining about he absence of brotherhood while simultaneously demonstrating precisely why it doesn't exist.

I'm just frustrated by how screwed up this system is. I hate that things like currency requirements, probationary pay, etc. continue to allow regional airlines to extract employee concessions to prop up a bad business model and worse management. You guys are in a very tough situation and I recognize that. I normally wouldn't have posted what I did but for some reason the tone of your rationalization rubbed me the wrong way.

Honestly though I don't expect anyone to fall on their sword to try to fix the system. I'd much prefer you guys make the judge impose pay/work rules vs locking them in for years voluntarily, but I recognize that the threat/carrot combo is probably too great for that.

Whatever the outcome I wish you and everyone at Pinnacle the best of luck, and I hope you all enjoy the holidays in spite of this situation.

Delta and regional contract durations. Does anyone really think a 7 year duration with a fleet guarantee of 81 is worth even the paper it's printed on? I distinctly remember when I was at 9E voting yes for the JCBA that the -200 fleet was extended through 2017 and that all -900s were extended through 2022 in one of the industry's "longest term deal." All that changed based on one single event: the new Delta PWA. What's to stop another industry "event" from changing these terms written on paper? How do you hold something like this accountable?

Actually the one event that changed it all is the Pinnacle bankruptcy.

You mean shamruptcy.

Negative ghost rider.

The new Delta pilot contract agreement calls for a better scope that forces a reduction in total number of regional aircraft.


Sorry dude, but Daddy Delta's pilots don't play when it's a bunch of backpack wearing pilots taking their jobs away. Payback is hell, pinnacle is done.

BTW. These "Aircraft Service Agreements" are written by lawyers. They are hundreds of pages long with zillions of loopholes to allow the mainline carrier an opportunity to delete the contract whenever they want to. These contracts are offered to the regional carrier in a RFP style package which is basically "take it or leave it."

Ask me, I have studied law and read these contracts.

Delta can wind down an operation in 3 months flat. All they have to do is rebook passengers on other flights and give them some free sky miles to say "we are sorry for the inconvenience."

Where are the 200's going? Right next to ComAirs 200's.....IN THE DESERT!!!!!'

If Pinnacle pilots vote yes for this contract will they be sealing their fate at any other airlines until they get their SSP to Delta? The reputable or better regionals will now be competing against this contract in their upcoming negotiations, I would think this might be held against them in their interviews by pilots. I don't have a dog in the 9E fight I left there this past fall and am much happier where I am.... I am just asking the question, I was riding in a XJT jumpseat today and we were discussing it because they are in negotiations right now and they think that if this passes they are going to get another more concessionary contract.

Pinnacle pilots need to vote for themselves and no one else. Just remember that if its voted down Delta will shut us down, there is no going back to the judge, this is a take it or leave it one time offer.

Why wouldn't the STFD crowd vote yes, get their bonus money and then resign the next day? This would burn the company more than just voting no now Also, the LTLOA are a great deal too, keep one foot in the door while you seek other employment and get three months pay and health benefits..

I partly agree with this but when/how does the bonus get paid out? I don't think you could leave on the 16th and get the pay out. Is there anything in writing stating that Delta will shut us down? People keep saying that, it could just be the Union/company spreading fear to get this thing to pass. I don't think anyone knows for sure what will happened if this is voted down. Even if they did shut us down it might not be for years. We will not shut down over night and when we do shut down it too will most likely come with a deal to keep pilots around to the end. Voting this down is not the end of the world.

Well excuse me Mr. Chuck Yeager.

Agreed. It would cost $29,000 and a lot of time to train 1440 go jet new hires if they give them the 200's. we will be flying them and giving them away slowly as some other regional builds staffing to accommodate them.

Is XJT in BK right now? Are they in desperate need of DIP financing? Does Delta hold the cards on their fate? We are between a rock and a hard place. Maybe, that this will trend towards them and others. I will vote what's best for my family and be done with it. In the end that's all you can do. Good luck to all.

Anyone know what Wychor was thinking by cutting the Delta MEC out of the loop when doing a deal with Delta management?

Did Wychor negotiate previous Pinnacle contracts directly with Northwest without the involvement of the Northwest MEC?

My condolences to the Pinncle pilots. Good luck.

I don't understand why you are so torqued up about the interview agreement with 9E. It is the same thing they negotiated with Compass. From what I hear Lee Moak who I believe is a Delta guy was in the room to work out this agreement. All the agreement does is provide an interview at Delta, and 81 planes that are already allowed under your current section 1. I am sure Mr. Moak consulted with your union before signing off on anything. Not to mention we are all ALPA pilots I thought unity was our strength. I would think you would be more upset if it was a flow. At least you guys get to put your stamp on the people coming in the door. Just because they interview doesn't mean they get the job.

If you think any other Major pilots even know what is going on in the regional world let alone care you are mistaken. Half the people at Delta don't even know who all their regional partners let alone United, or American. Those pilots would love to see every one of the regional guys on the street and the flying back in house. If others are so worried about the fate of 9E get our unions to sign agreements that you will not except any of the flying that would be lost to the Pinnacle shut down. Have your unions done anything to take on Comair guys who are on the street at anything higher than first year pay. If your not willing to stand up and extend an olive branch don't expect an entire pilot group to fall on a sword for you. Its not personal, people are going to make decisions based on whats best for their families.