Haters gonna hate.

 

So when are we gonna know the results of the TA vote?

 

False equivalency. Delta is not a contractor and cannot be whipsawed against Pinnacle...however Pinnacle can and will be used against ASA...whether it be a rate reset or directly in pilot contract negotiations.

So you think that voting in this contract...then getting furloughed and starting over under the atmosphere this contract creates is better right?

Are YOU that stupid?

You vote in this contract and you will become the DCI bottom feeders who Delta will use as a new normal. Getting out NOW and starting over somewhere without the atmosphere this contract creates is much better.

But I digress...you all will vote it in and create more hell for everyone else. But who cares right? Its all about you you you...and short term gains.

 

I hope you are correct and we vote this in. I need the job and the flight currency. Because in the long run you are correct it's all about the person casting the vote and what's good for them. Pilots on this board who don't even work for PCL saying we should vote this down are only thinking of themselves and don't care what happens to the pilot losing there job. I am not going to fall on the sword to protect your pay it's just not worth it. And voting this TA down will not stop the downward spiral of the Regional Pilots contract. Sorry it's just the truth.

 

This is why ALPA does not sign all contracts - especially those that undermine other properties. Someone has to think beyond next month.

 

Having met a few DAL guys online and in real life who ooze that "better than you DCI scum" mentality (and far more who do not)...

Having known 80knots before and after he became a DAL pilot...

You couldn't be more wrong about him.

Actually, that's pretty close to the attitude of many of the DAL pilots when others throughout the industry who would be affected by their TA chimed in during the deliberations, particularly on this message board.

The reality is that management has gotten very, very good at playing each pilot group off the others, aided by weak central leadership at ALPA that has effectively turned it into a loose confederation of independent unions.

The reality is that every vote and choice we make as union pilots has large consequences beyond our company and beyond our corner of the industry.

We should be thinking less like [XYZ company] pilots, less like regional or major pilots, and simply as airline pilots, plain and simple. There is very very little that separates us but luck of the draw that determines where we end up and when. Anybody who thinks they got where they are on skill and personal strength alone is kidding themselves. Anybody who thinks that those who yet haven't made it as far are intrinsically inferior is similarly deluded.

Every pilot in this industry knows (or should know) that but for the grace of God, we could be in the 9E pilots' horrible position, choosing between holding the line and furloughing everyone, or taking concessions and saving maybe 1/4 of the jobs with some protections for everyone else.

As a fellow DCI and ALPA pilot currently in section 6 negotiations, I sincerely hope 9E pilots don't take the bait. It would have severe repercussions throughout an industry where we were finally starting to raise the bar, in part thanks to the 9E pilots' long negotiations last decade. Having watched this all play out for friends at Comair, I think that furloughing the bottom 3/4 of your list will raise the costs of the remaining pilots so much that 9E is probably doomed to Comairization either way, and voting in concessions will save 9E no more than voting in concessions saved Comair.

Good luck to all the 9E pilots. I know my company is planning on hiring as many of you as we can, it sucks to start over at first year pay (been there done that) but hopefully nobody stays on the street for too long.

 

Anyone who took a regional airline job contributed to the downward spiral. This includes myself. What makes this TA a hit topic is the effect it will have on other regionals. Will the yes vote help other regionals? Probably not. Not only will it hurt pay negotiations, it will seal the deal on the Delta's 900 fleet plans. Shutting the bankrupt Pinnacle down only helps those on the outside looking in. I appreciate all those legitimately concerned about our future, this is not an easy decision.

 

This is a very true statement. I thought this would be an easy NO. That was my initial reaction. The only reason I am thinking about voting yes is because stay employed for another year or 2 (hopefully) and things could change completely as we have seen. 1 year is a long time in airline terms. If it goes as they plan and I will be Furloughed in 2014 and would more then likely not move on to another regional. I would debate coming back if recalled but in the mean time I would leave the industry. Of course this is all subject to change. This contract hurts pilots pay. But so does shutting us down and we all go to where the planes go. That just reset everyone to year 1 pay vs the year 4 for FO's and 12 for Capts. This industry really is just a ****** show.

 

So, I have to ask. What is your line in the sand where it's just not worth it to fly airplanes anymore? Everyone SHOULD have this. At some point, you drop below the "break even" point with an entry level hourly or 9 to 5 job and it begs the question why stick with it just to fly airplanes. I think a lot of the problem is too many people don't THINK about this and just stick with it despite the fact that the guy running the cash register at McDonald's might actually be making more in the long run. But hey, he doesn't get to fly a jet or spend half his month away from home, either.

I've already said that this TA (and yeah, I read it) falls below that line I had set for myself. I'm not telling you how to vote, I'm just saying how I would have voted if I were still there based on my "line in the sand." If you don't have a line, I'd highly recommend drawing one....

 

What's the backup plan, and assuming you did stay employed for another year or year and a half, would you actually make more by jumping to the backup plan earlier?