Please keep in mind that 26,000 15 years ago in 1997 is not the same as today. With inflation added in that 26,000 is equal to 36,000 dollars today. The even sadder part of this is that the reputable regional first pay is more like 23,000 nowadays...3,000 less than you received with zero inflation over a 15 year period. 2nd year pay hardly comes close to 36,000 if even that much. With ATP ruling...the 20 yr or FO is no more...have to be 23 now or turn 23 very soon before it goes in effect. Yes...the regionals do not require a college degree - but most jobs beyond the regionals do like your Delta employer. Even with that - not having a college degree nowadays is a huge setback and puts you way behind in the employment process. I didnt spend 150k on my college degree/flight training but it was a good 80K. Still hard to see good return value in it. Even teachers can make 40K after a year or 2 and they get the summers off. It simply comes down to pilots not wanting to make that little money after reaching ATP mins and still having to bear through the on reserve years...raise the wages and this will be solved, if there was something to be solved in the first place.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc....997&year2=2012

 

This is ludicrous. You sir, are absolutely incorrect.

Aviation training is 99% "vocational", and perhaps 1% "educational". The only part that might be considered educational is some aspects of CRM.

Vocational training is narrowly focused on specific skills that apply to a trade (like welding or plumbing). A pilot solves most problems by running checklists.

Education is specifically broadly focused to widen your base of knowledge, especially providing an appreciation and understanding of the past, and different cultures in the hopes of providing a sound basis for future judgement and decision making. Equally important, education develops problem solving skills involving critical thought and analysis (vice running checklists and memory items). Skill-intensive majors such as engineering, medicine, and computer science clearly require a lot of technical knowledge, but the actual application of that knowledge requires analytical skills which are developed in both core and major-specific coursework.

Now there is certainly a place for the application of analytical and even critical thinking skills in aviation, primarily when dealing with other people (crew, ATC, ground services, mx, etc). But flight training is very far from educational, so hopefully you picked those skills up somewhere else along the way.

Do you "need" education to be a pilot? In absolute terms, no. Do you need a degree to progress in the industry in the US? Most likely, yes.

But aviation training or operations is not education. And everything I said applies to a real education from a university, not online diploma mills.

 

How do I survive on $23/hr first year?

 

sorry, no excuse because autocorrect bails me out more times than not on the iPad

 

So someone in aviation doesn't have to be educated in basic physics, thermodynamics, aerodynamics and weather to name a few. So an Airline pilot doesn't need to learn how the systems in his airplane work in other words educated in those systems.

"Education in its general sense is a form of learning in which knowledge, skills, and habits of a group of people are transferred from one generation to the next through teaching, training, research, or simply through autodidacticism.[1] Generally, it occurs through any experience that has a formative effect on the way one thinks, feels, or acts."

Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"ed·u·ca·tion

1. the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life.

2. the act or process of imparting or acquiring particular knowledge or skills, as for a profession.

3.a degree, level, or kind of schooling: a university education.

4.the result produced by instruction, training, or study: to show one's education.

5.the science or art of teaching; pedagogics.

Education | Define Education at Dictionary.com

 

Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

please tell me you didn't list Wikipedia as a source on purpose to back up a definition on education...

 

I am willing to bet that the people with a degree will argue that it is necessary to be sucessful in this industry, and the people that don't, won't.

This guy has it nailed. (In my opinion.)

Is a college degree worth the cost? You decide. - YouTube

 

That's why I also provided a credible source as well

 

An electrician is educated in basic physics. He's not generally considered educated, nor does he need to be in his trade.

Learning systems is NOT education. Learning how to DESIGN and BUILD systems would require extensive analytical thought, and thus is education. Even learning how to model systems mathematically would be educational as it would provide a robust understanding of how they work.

I taught at 141 and 161 schools and although I'm actually very knowledgeable in thermodynamics, that subject never once came up.
Bottom line: people talking about education and aviation always come back to the systems. But the majority of pilots I meet do not even understand the difference between AC and DC electricity. They just memorize single-line diagrams and could not begin to draw a simple DC timer circuit, much less do the calculus needed for AC circuits.

Very few pilots (unless they are engineers) understand basic thermodynamics at all, or could even produce a simple graph or equation depicting heat transfer across layers a different materials.

Most pilots when asked about bernouli's principle will draw a cartoon flow restriction, and have never seen the full equation describing the various components of energy in a fluid flow.

Admittedly, pilots have more in-depth technical knowledge about a wider variety of disciplines than the average tradesman, but that does not make their knowledge and training "education". Pilots have some unusual and challenging aspects of their profession (hand eye coordination, multi-tasking, calm under pressure, etc) which are noteworthy and set them apart from the average person, but again have nothing to do with education.

Flight training as education is laughable, and it's almost pathetic to watch people try to rationalize their background into something it's not. Now a university flight training program could incorporate some education into the non-aviation core curriculum, and presumably have to do so for certification purposes. But a CPL/CFI from ATP flight school, MAPD, etc ain't education...

Somebody once pointed out to me that pilots are "the dumbest of the smart people"...

 

I made $14,400 my first year at Great Lakes. My first full year as a Captain, I made 27,000... so yeah...