Pinnacle First Officer ATP Checkride Failures
12-29-2012, 09:21 AM
#1
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Pinnacle First Officer ATP Checkride Failures
Since september, there has been a large amount of first officers fail their ATP checkrides to what many view as a result of insufficient training and inadequate/inaccurate testing. There is a group of terminated first officers working with an aviation law firm at the moment for a pro-bono class action lawsuit. Hopefully the wrongs can be righted, the pilots can be returned to their jobs, the failures expunged, and the training program revamped.
The jist of the suit is that Pinnacle is only giving about an hour or two training for your oral exam which is held to Captain Standards. Yet, Captain ATP oral exam's are typically tested after 3 solid weeks of training.
So sad to see pilots who have never failed a checkride in their life, study hard, yet only to get asked cockamamie unrelated questions by examiners who are making them up out of thin air while shooting from the hip. It is a total disgrace to the profession. These pilots don't deserve it.
Easy case for a lawyer when a group of pilots with flawless records, scoring high on all writtens, gets dished a $hit sandwich like this. Sad to see that management turns their head when wild-card check airman ruthlessly end ones career.
Does this happen at professionally run airlines???
The jist of the suit is that Pinnacle is only giving about an hour or two training for your oral exam which is held to Captain Standards. Yet, Captain ATP oral exam's are typically tested after 3 solid weeks of training.
So sad to see pilots who have never failed a checkride in their life, study hard, yet only to get asked cockamamie unrelated questions by examiners who are making them up out of thin air while shooting from the hip. It is a total disgrace to the profession. These pilots don't deserve it.
Easy case for a lawyer when a group of pilots with flawless records, scoring high on all writtens, gets dished a $hit sandwich like this. Sad to see that management turns their head when wild-card check airman ruthlessly end ones career.
Does this happen at professionally run airlines???
12-29-2012, 09:58 AM
#3
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You better tell the guys without the flawless record to get out of the class action law suit so it will make a stronger case for the few remaining!! Pro bono?? If the guys were serious they would pay to get a real lawyer to represent them. How much effort you think the "free" lawyer would put in?
I know initially at my company we had about 50% ATP failures and while some didn't deserve it, most did. Now we're up to about 80% pass rate since guys are coming in actually prepared. And to get terminated after one failure? Something doesn't add up.
If you think you deserve to pass an ATP oral from the 1-2 hour training, man we got a serious problem. Go ask around about the pass rate at pinnacle. I'm sure it's pretty high.
I know initially at my company we had about 50% ATP failures and while some didn't deserve it, most did. Now we're up to about 80% pass rate since guys are coming in actually prepared. And to get terminated after one failure? Something doesn't add up.
If you think you deserve to pass an ATP oral from the 1-2 hour training, man we got a serious problem. Go ask around about the pass rate at pinnacle. I'm sure it's pretty high.
12-29-2012, 10:11 AM
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Not just one failure, yet a conglomerate of double whammies.
When a retro paycheck is distrubted at the courts order for a large group of pilots it will be all worth the lawyers time as the firm takes 1/3.
This isn't the first lawsuit, and wont be the last. Pinnacle has a long history of pilots suing them after termination. Some rightfully terminated have no case. Many, wrongfully terminated have won hundreds of thousands of dollars in return with their records cleaned.
History is repeating itself.
When a retro paycheck is distrubted at the courts order for a large group of pilots it will be all worth the lawyers time as the firm takes 1/3.
This isn't the first lawsuit, and wont be the last. Pinnacle has a long history of pilots suing them after termination. Some rightfully terminated have no case. Many, wrongfully terminated have won hundreds of thousands of dollars in return with their records cleaned.
History is repeating itself.
Last edited by Pinchanickled; 12-29-2012 at 10:25 AM.
12-29-2012, 10:46 AM
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So let me get this straight:
A large group of airline pilots isn't able to pass the exam to become an "airline transport pilot"? And then they sue?
Tough for them. Part of the idea of the new standards are that pilots are going to be expected to perform at a higher level and be skilled airline pilots. This isn't just a "check off the box" item like the English Proficient thing was. This is about weeding out those pilots who can't meet the higher standard. If you don't know enough about your airplane after years of flying it to pass an ATP checkride in it, that sounds like a long-term professionalism problem on the part of the pilot.
You can't blame it on the check airman unless they're failing everyone. But, then again, this is America. Its not my fault I can't pass a checkride, I'm just going to sue the airline. Because thats what we all want -- subpar pilots who sued their way back into their job and to have their pink slips cleared. If only I would've known that I could have done that, I wouldn't have studied so hard every time I went in for a checkride.
A large group of airline pilots isn't able to pass the exam to become an "airline transport pilot"? And then they sue?
Tough for them. Part of the idea of the new standards are that pilots are going to be expected to perform at a higher level and be skilled airline pilots. This isn't just a "check off the box" item like the English Proficient thing was. This is about weeding out those pilots who can't meet the higher standard. If you don't know enough about your airplane after years of flying it to pass an ATP checkride in it, that sounds like a long-term professionalism problem on the part of the pilot.
You can't blame it on the check airman unless they're failing everyone. But, then again, this is America. Its not my fault I can't pass a checkride, I'm just going to sue the airline. Because thats what we all want -- subpar pilots who sued their way back into their job and to have their pink slips cleared. If only I would've known that I could have done that, I wouldn't have studied so hard every time I went in for a checkride.
12-29-2012, 10:46 AM
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Sounds like they may be thinning the herd for financial reasons. Aren't you guys slated to boot 1500 pilots over a fairly short time period soon ?
Not sure if you have furlough pay, but if so, they wouldn't have to pay it if you're fired. Considering the ethically bankrupt scumbags running your company, it wouldnt surprise me.
Not sure if you have furlough pay, but if so, they wouldn't have to pay it if you're fired. Considering the ethically bankrupt scumbags running your company, it wouldnt surprise me.
12-29-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lolwut
So let me get this straight:
A large group of airline pilots isn't able to pass the exam to become an "airline transport pilot"? And then they sue?
Tough for them. Part of the idea of the new standards are that pilots are going to be expected to perform at a higher level and be skilled airline pilots. This isn't just a "check off the box" item like the English Proficient thing was. This is about weeding out those pilots who can't meet the higher standard. If you don't know enough about your airplane after years of flying it to pass an ATP checkride in it, that sounds like a long-term professionalism problem on the part of the pilot.
You can't blame it on the check airman unless they're failing everyone. But, then again, this is America. Its not my fault I can't pass a checkride, I'm just going to sue the airline. Because thats what we all want -- subpar pilots who sued their way back into their job and to have their pink slips cleared. If only I would've known that I could have done that, I wouldn't have studied so hard every time I went in for a checkride.
A large group of airline pilots isn't able to pass the exam to become an "airline transport pilot"? And then they sue?
Tough for them. Part of the idea of the new standards are that pilots are going to be expected to perform at a higher level and be skilled airline pilots. This isn't just a "check off the box" item like the English Proficient thing was. This is about weeding out those pilots who can't meet the higher standard. If you don't know enough about your airplane after years of flying it to pass an ATP checkride in it, that sounds like a long-term professionalism problem on the part of the pilot.
You can't blame it on the check airman unless they're failing everyone. But, then again, this is America. Its not my fault I can't pass a checkride, I'm just going to sue the airline. Because thats what we all want -- subpar pilots who sued their way back into their job and to have their pink slips cleared. If only I would've known that I could have done that, I wouldn't have studied so hard every time I went in for a checkride.
This
They are going for THEIR ATP & TYPE, THEY should have prepared themselves
12-29-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
They are going for THEIR ATP & TYPE, THEY should have prepared themselves
If the gold standard is the "oral exam guide" why do they feel the need to deviate so far from it that a photographic memory of all the manuals will not be sufficient in order to answer the trick questions presented.
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