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They are going to pump us up, then sell us off, if there is no buyer when they go to sell, we will get shutdown. If Comair would have had a buyer years ago, they would still be around.
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In an interview in January 2006, Mesaba President John Spanjers announced that the Mesaba fleet would be cut in half by the end of the year. Twelve Avro jets had already been removed from the fleet, and the balance would be grounded by the end of the year. 10 Saab 340 "B" model aircraft were returned to Pinnacle Airlines (from whom they were leased) during January 2006 while the 3 remaining "A" model Saab 340's and the two Canadair Regional Jets that had been delivered to Mesaba prior to bankruptcy would leave the fleet before mid-year. These changes left Mesaba with a fleet of 49 Saab 340 turboprops.[citation needed]
As of January 2006, the company employed 3,707 people. On 14 April 2006 the company announced reductions of the RJ85 fleet, at Northwest Airlines' direction. RJ-85's ceased flying out of Memphis on June 8, and on October 31 the last RJ85 disappeared from Minneapolis/St. Paul. The last RJ85 aircraft was retired in Detroit on December 4, 2006. Separately it was announced that one of the two 50-seat Canadair Regional Jets operated by Mesaba would be taken by Northwest to start the flying operations (expected in late 2006) of newly formed Northwest Airlines subsidiary Compass Airlines. By the end of October 2006, all three of the major unions representing the pilots,[8] flight attendants,[9] and mechanics[10] reached tentative agreements that still needed to be approved by the membership. On November 27, 2006, the three unions announced that their membership had ratified the new agreements. In December 2006, Northwest Airlines said it may purchase Mesaba Airlines from current owner MAIR Holdings and operate it as a wholly owned subsidiary. Tentative agreement to the sale were made; however, the merger could not have been approved without going through bankruptcy board proceedings and approvals of regulators and various interest groups. On April 24, 2007, Mesaba Airlines emerged from bankruptcy protection and was officially acquired by Northwest Airlines.[11] Does the sequence of events seem familiar ? |
PCLCREW have you not been following along what has happened this past year. We don't have any money, Phil made many bad business decisions and this is todays reality. This MEC was also the MEC that stood up for us and said we are not taking pay cuts before BK. They just don't give in for no reason. What specifically has this MEC done that you distrust them so much. I want some solid examples or just stop whining. |
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
(Post 1323714)
In an interview in January 2006, Mesaba President John Spanjers announced that the Mesaba fleet would be cut in half by the end of the year. Twelve Avro jets had already been removed from the fleet, and the balance would be grounded by the end of the year. 10 Saab 340 "B" model aircraft were returned to Pinnacle Airlines (from whom they were leased) during January 2006 while the 3 remaining "A" model Saab 340's and the two Canadair Regional Jets that had been delivered to Mesaba prior to bankruptcy would leave the fleet before mid-year. These changes left Mesaba with a fleet of 49 Saab 340 turboprops.[citation needed]
As of January 2006, the company employed 3,707 people. On 14 April 2006 the company announced reductions of the RJ85 fleet, at Northwest Airlines' direction. RJ-85's ceased flying out of Memphis on June 8, and on October 31 the last RJ85 disappeared from Minneapolis/St. Paul. The last RJ85 aircraft was retired in Detroit on December 4, 2006. Separately it was announced that one of the two 50-seat Canadair Regional Jets operated by Mesaba would be taken by Northwest to start the flying operations (expected in late 2006) of newly formed Northwest Airlines subsidiary Compass Airlines. By the end of October 2006, all three of the major unions representing the pilots,[8] flight attendants,[9] and mechanics[10] reached tentative agreements that still needed to be approved by the membership. On November 27, 2006, the three unions announced that their membership had ratified the new agreements. In December 2006, Northwest Airlines said it may purchase Mesaba Airlines from current owner MAIR Holdings and operate it as a wholly owned subsidiary. Tentative agreement to the sale were made; however, the merger could not have been approved without going through bankruptcy board proceedings and approvals of regulators and various interest groups. On April 24, 2007, Mesaba Airlines emerged from bankruptcy protection and was officially acquired by Northwest Airlines.[11] Does the sequence of events seem familiar ? You can not use the Mesaba Bankruptcy. Only the doom and gloom Comair one can be used in this thread. This is a selective thread we only want one side. I am not saying I am for or against this TA but everybody points to Comair and no one points to Mesaba. The truth is NONE of us pilots know what the heck will happen. We can guess and if enough of us guess one of us will get it right. |
Originally Posted by PCLCREW
(Post 1323717)
Ha ha ha ya they did a ton of sticking up for us.... Lambs to the slaughter and you guys are eating their crap up.
I was a voting member of the PNCL MEC when Menke came and asked us for money and I take high offense to what you say. These guys take more time away from their families than flying requires to represent us. You owe them more respect. |
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
(Post 1323714)
In an interview in January 2006, Mesaba President John Spanjers announced that the Mesaba fleet would be cut in half by the end of the year. Twelve Avro jets had already been removed from the fleet, and the balance would be grounded by the end of the year. 10 Saab 340 "B" model aircraft were returned to Pinnacle Airlines (from whom they were leased) during January 2006 while the 3 remaining "A" model Saab 340's and the two Canadair Regional Jets that had been delivered to Mesaba prior to bankruptcy would leave the fleet before mid-year. These changes left Mesaba with a fleet of 49 Saab 340 turboprops.[citation needed]
As of January 2006, the company employed 3,707 people. On 14 April 2006 the company announced reductions of the RJ85 fleet, at Northwest Airlines' direction. RJ-85's ceased flying out of Memphis on June 8, and on October 31 the last RJ85 disappeared from Minneapolis/St. Paul. The last RJ85 aircraft was retired in Detroit on December 4, 2006. Separately it was announced that one of the two 50-seat Canadair Regional Jets operated by Mesaba would be taken by Northwest to start the flying operations (expected in late 2006) of newly formed Northwest Airlines subsidiary Compass Airlines. By the end of October 2006, all three of the major unions representing the pilots,[8] flight attendants,[9] and mechanics[10] reached tentative agreements that still needed to be approved by the membership. On November 27, 2006, the three unions announced that their membership had ratified the new agreements. In December 2006, Northwest Airlines said it may purchase Mesaba Airlines from current owner MAIR Holdings and operate it as a wholly owned subsidiary. Tentative agreement to the sale were made; however, the merger could not have been approved without going through bankruptcy board proceedings and approvals of regulators and various interest groups. On April 24, 2007, Mesaba Airlines emerged from bankruptcy protection and was officially acquired by Northwest Airlines.[11] Does the sequence of events seem familiar ? Mesaba then operated a single CRJ-200 for a long time. It made no sense. It didn't make money. But it was all part of a plan, a plan that most pilots weren't able to figure out, but looking back looks blindingly obvious. I'm sure there are blindingly obvious things going on this time around too, just gotta figure them out. |
How about some specifics PCLCREW. If you are going to talk big I wanna know the specific examples on how the MEC has lied to you or this pilot group.
|
Originally Posted by SmitteyB
(Post 1323740)
I did union work for 5 years and I can assure you I received NOTHING for my time so to think they are somehow "sell-outs" just goes to show your maturity level.
I was a voting member of the PNCL MEC when Menke came and asked us for money and I take high offense to what you say. These guys take more time away from their families than flying requires to represent us. You owe them more respect. Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323754)
This is very hard to believe and not likely.
Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. It will continue to happen until we are truly a Union and not merely an "Association". Pilots would have to have each others back for that to happen. Not likely. |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323754)
This is very hard to believe and not likely.
Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323754)
This is very hard to believe and not likely.
Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. Unless I've heard the stories incorrectly or exaggerated... that would be part of the answer as to why Pinnacle is so screwed up today. You guys have been getting it hard from both ends... management and the union. Both of which are there to make as much money as they can without you in regard. |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323754)
This is very hard to believe and not likely.
Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. The current folks in place have not taken advantage of the system in the same way. There are guys doing crewroom sits on days off, fielding phone calls on holidays, and answering angry emails from pilots blaming them for the situation they're in, sounds like a great gig. :rolleyes: If you think the free booze and cell phone is worth the above hassle plus commuting across the country to nerd out with other pilots you need a new social life. |
Originally Posted by PCLCREW
(Post 1323656)
There was a sticker the Pinnacle MEC put out about 4 or 5 years ago it read:
Simply the best, but less then average. So we fought and fought to get better then average pay. It's funny how fast Pinnacle pilots are going to give that slightly better then average pay back. Why not work for free? I mean Pinnacle must be just that awesome. Oh and the union is supporting that worse than average pay, but 4 years ago they were fighting against it. Unity. Pinnacle pilots are not giving up anything. This TA is being shoved down our throats. We can either stay employed or the bulk of our aircraft will go to Gojets, S5, and CPZ. Those three DCI carriers are significantly cheaper than our concessionary TA. Would you rather we let the bar slip even further down the toilet by voting it down. Would that make your next negotiations easier when you are now competing with them for lift? This TA sucks and nobody at 9E thinks otherwise. However, it is better than the alternative. You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by Will
(Post 1323458)
A FA with 6 years seniority will make more than an FO on first year pay. After year 1 FO's will make more than any FA on property. You guys are making a big issue out of something that has been happening for a long time. Compare the starting pay that at some of the majors compared to senior FA's. The No voters are grasping at strings here to try and sway votes to closing PCL down. At least they are trying to use facts they just are giving pilots a small glimpse of the big picture.
Nice job to MEC Chair and EVP for making your airline what it is and screwing up negotiations at every other property! |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323754)
This is very hard to believe and not likely.
Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. |
Originally Posted by lolwut
(Post 1323781)
Didn't a certain 9E MEC chairman routinely set monthly pay credit records? Levels that would astound you? All in an airplane that he hadn't ever actually even flown?
Unless I've heard the stories incorrectly or exaggerated... that would be part of the answer as to why Pinnacle is so screwed up today. You guys have been getting it hard from both ends... management and the union. Both of which are there to make as much money as they can without you in regard. |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323754)
This is very hard to believe and not likely.
Here's how it works. Yes, maybe you did not receive a "monetary" salary from ALPA. But what you do typically receive is non-monetary benefits. ALPA virtually reimburses everyones cell phone. Even if only 10% of their cell phone time is used regarding union issues, ALPA pays 100% of the bill. That's minor, but this is major. You get bought off for a trip to deal with union work. Then you can double dip the system flying trips on your days off. Essentially you can get 75 hours of union pay, and another 50 hours of pay from trips. 125 hours a month easy money. On your trips your gone, but on your Union days, I find it hard to believe your not working full force and calling it quits early, because on paper, you don't have any days off. Not to mention the ALPA credit card that gets passed around for meals, drinks, which in the end is frequently used in bars downtown, after hours, to discuss "union business." ALPA is just as much to blame as Management is. Pilots have been sitting around with MONTHS off work waiting to get into a training event. This unproductivity causes other pilots to fly trips at 150% and even 200%. So for one trip, a pilot gets double pay, while another pilot is on a 3 month break from work. That adds up to TRIPLE pay for ONE trip. What solutions did ALPA bring to Management to undue the cluster****? Well, ALPA sat on their A$$ watching the airline become paralyzed to the Union inefficiencies. Yep, you know this is true......but go ahead and deny it. Proclaim to the world how amazing ALPA is. Muster up your words, think it through, and phone a friend to get answers on how to prove that ALPA is perfect. Wow! Pinchanickled, do you ever have anything good to say or contribute. You spout off a lot of accusations but never offer any solutions. Try not to be so useless. No offense... ;) I wonder if you would talk this much smack in person? You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by Slats
(Post 1323776)
Ouch... Eagerly waiting a response from any 9E ALPA memebr.
You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by CheckPower
(Post 1323842)
Wow!
Pinchanickled, do you ever have anything good to say or contribute. You spout off a lot of accusations but never offer any solutions. Try not to be so useless. No offense... I wonder if you would talk this much smack in person? You guys still crack me up Management's response was, ok, if you want us to drag our feet, we will! And they did, from May 2005 to Feb 2011. Now that 9E finally got a decent contract, the union is willing to sell out mid+junior pilots to protect the top of the top. And what person on the 9E MEC voted yes to taking money ALPA dues out of your 401K? Is that classified? |
Originally Posted by tom14cat14
(Post 1323738)
...I am not saying I am for or against this TA but everybody points to Comair and no one points to Mesaba...
http://humordistrict.com/wp-content/...-Doc-Brown.jpg And what happened at Mesaba? Half the pilots gone during BK. A flurry of growth just prior to the NW/Delta merger, then two years of stagnation and getting to play musical DCI chairs with fewer and fewer CRJs. Then sold to 9E, where they now have the "opportunity" to vote if all the pilots get furloughed, or only two thirds. I have the utmost respect for the Mesaba guys, and none of this crappy DCI career fallout is anything they brought on themselves. But I wouldn't call their situation a success story. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 1323846)
It's the hypocrisy. Remember the stickers. "99%" "STFD" "For a demonstration in unity, keep dragging your feet!"
Management's response was, ok, if you want us to drag our feet, we will! And they did, from May 2005 to Feb 2011. Now that 9E finally got a decent contract, the union is willing to sell out mid+junior pilots to protect the top of the top. And what person on the 9E MEC voted yes to taking money ALPA dues out of your 401K? Is that classified? The union didnt sell out the mid to junior pilots. I am one of them. The union negotiated a deal with Delta and Delta said "no thanks, Gojets will do it cheaper". The Union went back to Delta and renegotiated a deal that Delta would agree to. That deal is the TA we are voting on now. The Union could have held the line and said no thanks and shut the doors. But they stuck with it so that the pilots could determine their own fate. All the Union did was give the pilots the choice to wind down or stay employed. They openly admit that this TA sucks but they were not willing to decide the fate of 2400 pilots on their own. They left that decision soley to the pilot group. Go to a road show and get all the info. Hell, even Pinnacle Pete said they did a great job negotiating this TA. If you knew Pinnacle Pete, that says something. I hope when you and I are 20 year captains that the union fights for me and you. The union represents all pilots, not just the low to mid seniority guys. You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by CheckPower
(Post 1323890)
All the Union did was give the pilots the choice to wind down or stay employed.
You crack ME up! Let me make this even more clear.... The bottom 66% of the pilot group gets two options: OPTION A - UNEMPLOYMENT OR OPTION B - UNEMPLOYMENT |
"66% will be unemployed" is uniformed hyperbole.
No airframes (besides the ATL frames that are already gone) will be removed until August 2013. By then we will have lost another 500 pilots. When the 200's start to go, 900's will come at a 1/4 ratio. During the 18 months the 200's leave, we will lose about 6 frames per month, which is about 50 crewmembers per month. We currently have attrition at the same level. By 2015, it's very likely that there will be about 1000 9E pilots, but in 18 months we will naturally lose 1000+ pilots. Furloughs will continue to be minimal for those who want to stay or can't leave. |
Originally Posted by 9easy
(Post 1323916)
"66% will be unemployed" is uniformed hyperbole.
No airframes (besides the ATL frames that are already gone) will be removed until August 2013. By then we will have lost another 500 pilots. When the 200's start to go, 900's will come at a 1/4 ratio. During the 18 months the 200's leave, we will lose about 6 frames per month, which is about 50 crewmembers per month. We currently have attrition at the same level. By 2015, it's very likely that there will be about 1000 9E pilots, but in 18 months we will naturally lose 1000+ pilots. Furloughs will continue to be minimal for those who want to stay or can't leave. So your saying the bottom 66% will furlough themself into unemployment? Because nobody is hiring. Market's flooded with ComAir pilots. Maybe as the airline crumbles pilots will get jobs at Walmart. I can see that. Where are you getting 1,000 9E pilots? Staffing of 5 crews per plane. 10 pilots per plane. 81 planes = 810 pilots. Simple. |
Originally Posted by 9easy
(Post 1323916)
"66% will be unemployed" is uniformed hyperbole.
No airframes (besides the ATL frames that are already gone) will be removed until August 2013. By then we will have lost another 500 pilots. When the 200's start to go, 900's will come at a 1/4 ratio. During the 18 months the 200's leave, we will lose about 6 frames per month, which is about 50 crewmembers per month. We currently have attrition at the same level. By 2015, it's very likely that there will be about 1000 9E pilots, but in 18 months we will naturally lose 1000+ pilots. Furloughs will continue to be minimal for those who want to stay or can't leave. |
What's the opposite of the words: 1) Always 2) Coming 3) From 4) Take 5) Me 6) Down
|
We are already losing 30-40 per month and that's without United hiring (50 per month starting soon), retirement boom, or the eventual Delta trickle.
|
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323905)
Negative. 66% become UNEMPLOYED regardless. They do not have the choice to stay employed. The final result is an airline with 81 planes, staffed at 10 pilots per plane. That's 810 pilots. 1,500 end up UNEMPLOYED. The bottom 1,500 pilots do not have a choice. F'ed either way.
You crack ME up! Let me make this even more clear.... The bottom 66% of the pilot group gets two options: OPTION A - UNEMPLOYMENT OR OPTION B - UNEMPLOYMENT If you had the choice: A) Keep your job a little while longer to build up your flight time, get your ATP to make yourself more marketable and all the other perks in the TA plus $2000 for 0-1st year longevity, save the aircraft we have left from going to S5 and Gojets which lowers the bar even more for your next negotiations. OR B) Become unemployed What would you personally choose? And yes this is a direct question for you to answer, a simple A or B will suffice. And while were at it, I will repost the other two questions I posed to you, just in case you missed them or just forgot to answer them. 1) Pinchanickled, if you were making $75K to $120k per year, would you be so eager to give that up for the sake of the industry and the good of other pilots? Just curious, an honest yes or no answer please with an explanation if you dont mind. Thanks 2) Also, in all sincerity, could you explain how it will benefit the industry when our airplanes go to a carrier that will fly them for less than we can, even with our concessionary TA? Keep in mind that three other carriers have already bid for our flying in the event the TA doesnt pass and they are cheaper than us with our TA. Pinchanickled, please understand that I am not trying to attack you. I am sincerely looking for a rational arguement that would sway my vote from yes to no. Most of you dont have all the information regarding this TA so its difficult to make an informed decision. I understand that. To everyone else, I am just curious. How would you all honestly vote if you were in our situation given the above information? This TA sucks. Unemployment sucks more. You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323920)
Where are you getting 1,000 9E pilots? Staffing of 5 crews per plane. 10 pilots per plane. 81 planes = 810 pilots. Simple.
You are not taking into account the new rest rules that go into effect Jan 2014 that will require all airlines to increase their staffing to accomodate these rules. You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
(Post 1323920)
So your saying the bottom 66% will furlough themself into unemployment? Because nobody is hiring. Market's flooded with ComAir pilots. Maybe as the airline crumbles pilots will get jobs at Walmart. I can see that.
Where are you getting 1,000 9E pilots? Staffing of 5 crews per plane. 10 pilots per plane. 81 planes = 810 pilots. Simple. |
Originally Posted by CheckPower
(Post 1323943)
You are not taking into account the new rest rules that go into effect Jan 2014 that will require all airlines to increase their staffing to accomodate these rules.
You guys still crack me up |
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
(Post 1323510)
Then compare the 4th year rates for the Regional FO's:
Pinnacle: $38.58 at DOS on 900 and $37.36 on the 200 Compass: $39 Air Wisconsin: $41 Go Jet: $38 PSA: $37 Trans States: $38 Eagle: $39 Jet and $34 Prop Express Jet: $39 Republic: $37 Skywest: $43, 42, 39 Jet and $33 Prop Mesa: $34 Jet and $25 Prop *All numbers were from APC Airlines links. there you go confusing the blowhard hypocrites with facts.....please stop..... |
Originally Posted by CheckPower
(Post 1323934)
Well played Pinchanickled but once again you left out some important information. Neither options address the benefits of the TA to a very junior pilot and to the industry as a whole.;)
If you had the choice: A) Keep your job a little while longer to build up your flight time, get your ATP to make yourself more marketable and all the other perks in the TA plus $2000 for 0-1st year longevity, save the aircraft we have left from going to S5 and Gojets which lowers the bar even more for your next negotiations. OR B) Become unemployed What would you personally choose? And yes this is a direct question for you to answer, a simple A or B will suffice. And while were at it, I will repost the other two questions I posed to you, just in case you missed them or just forgot to answer them. 1) Pinchanickled, if you were making $75K to $120k per year, would you be so eager to give that up for the sake of the industry and the good of other pilots? Just curious, an honest yes or no answer please with an explanation if you dont mind. Thanks 2) Also, in all sincerity, could you explain how it will benefit the industry when our airplanes go to a carrier that will fly them for less than we can, even with our concessionary TA? Keep in mind that three other carriers have already bid for our flying in the event the TA doesnt pass and they are cheaper than us with our TA. Pinchanickled, please understand that I am not trying to attack you. I am sincerely looking for a rational arguement that would sway my vote from yes to no. Most of you dont have all the information regarding this TA so its difficult to make an informed decision. I understand that. To everyone else, I am just curious. How would you all honestly vote if you were in our situation given the above information? This TA sucks. Unemployment sucks more. You guys still crack me up I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft". -Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation). I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out. I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company. I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem. I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation. I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's. I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary). I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table. Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me. Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun. |
Originally Posted by belliott
(Post 1324004)
Hey Check...
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft". -Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation). I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out. I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company. I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem. I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation. I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's. I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary). I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table. Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me. Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun. |
Originally Posted by 9easy
(Post 1323932)
We are already losing 30-40 per month and that's without United hiring (50 per month starting soon), retirement boom, or the eventual Delta trickle.
|
Originally Posted by belliott
(Post 1324004)
Hey Check...
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft". -Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation). I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out. I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company. I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem. I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation. I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's. I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary). I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table. Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me. Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun. |
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
(Post 1323652)
Okay, but after the new fleet alignment with 81 -900s, there won't BE anymore 4 year FOs. They'll be 7 or 8 year FOs. So, let's re-compare, shall we?
Pinnacle $38.58 Compass $42 Air Wisconsin $45 GoJet $38 PSA $40 Trans States $41 Eagle $41 ExpressJet $43 Republic $37 Skywest $47 Mesa $36 *All numbers were from APC Airlines links" 76-Seat FO payrates (Year 8): Skywest...............$47 ExpressJet (ASA)....$47 (in negotiations) Air Wisconsin.........$45 (50-seat rate, in negotiations) ExpressJet (XJT)....$44 (50 seat rate, in negotiations) Compass..............$42 (contract amendable April 2013) American Eagle......$42 Trans States.........$41 (50-seat rate) PSA.....................$40 (in negotiations) Pinnacle TA........$38.58 Go Jet.................$38 (contract amendable June 2013) Republic...............$37 (in negotiations) Mesa...................$37 (in negotiations) |
Originally Posted by belliott
(Post 1324004)
Hey Check...
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft". -Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation). I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out. I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company. I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem. I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation. I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's. I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary). I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table. Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me. Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun. Belliot, hats off to you. This is a very honest response to my questions and concerns about what is happening at 9E. I stand by you and your decision. And your right to vote how you see fit. Thanks |
Phil made many bad business decisions... |
Originally Posted by Saabs
(Post 1323995)
Didn't the call say about 1100 to 1200 pilots with the new rest rules? Obviously they could be wrong but that's their first projection
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