DMEARC was at a regional for about three years before getting picked up by CAL. He upgraded in just over a year and he has about seven years in this industry. He is talking down from his "United Mainliners" seat with about as much authority as a Jester sitting in the Kings quarters. Just like he posted about how regionals were taking his job as soon as he got furloughed from United even though he came from a bottom rung regional with the worst treatment that helped cause his furlough(it had the quickest movement.) It is actually pretty laughable that he insists on talking down to people from his mainline seat.

Pinnacle will pass this TA because pilots are greedy and self serving. We cannot change the "ME ME ME" of an entire profession even with proof that it will affect other airlines. This will affect mainline negotiations down the road just as severely as it will affect regional negotiations in the short term. These are 65,000 lb + airplanes that are being negotiated and they should be at mainline.

In short it is a horrible deal for all pilots but it will pass no matter what anyone says. It was designed by professional negotiators from delta and it plays into the exact short term gain that has been teasing pilots into accepting subpar wages and treatment for years. Just like the guys going to Colgan because it was a quick upgrade despite safety and treatment issues, just like the guys paying Gulfstream for 1900 time even though they were underqualified, just like the way Gojets has a stack of resumes , just like DMEARC going to Colgan for 2.5 yrs and then thinking regionals are the scum of the earth... pilots are looking out for #1 and do not care about anyone else.

I don't fault the Pinnacle pilots at all. This is a much bigger issue about the lack of pilot unity. Everyone is out for their own interests.

 

And listening to some mainline D bag that *****d out the flying in the first place is a good thing to do.

 

Even though he says "We ruined that by relaxing scoped for huge raises that weren't sustainable in the market post-911..." He wasn't even at Colgan for another 4-5 yrs after 9/11.... which is another reason to question his credibility.

 

The exact same thing was said to Mesa pilots over the last decade...by nobody at Pinnacle or Mesaba, ever.

 

Look, you don't like me and I get it. You never have and that is fine. Your posts have always been anti-Colgan and now anti-Pinnacle. ExpressJet is god. Steve McKnight is Jesus. Your posts are hostile, childish, and quite ostentatious for someone who has such a limited experience base to draw from.

But I would like to point out a few inaccuracies in your allegations.

I have over 15 years in aviation including instructing and a short stint in corporate flying; double your alleged 7. So your first accusation is incorrect. I did go to Colgan Air. Not for a quick upgrade, but because my daughter was having cancer treatment in Boston and I could get the PVD base to be close with them. I got hired by CAL by simply applying. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't insist on talking down to anyone on this forum, but what I find laughable is how you folks are treating the Pinnacle guys and gals. They are working toward the same thing as yourself; a prosperous career in aviation.

Regionals are not scum and if you can find proof of that I will apologize.

The intent of my post was to draw attention to the fact that you folks are blatantly mistreating pilots in distress. Pinnacle pilots have done nothing wrong. They are victims of a management orchestrated bankruptcy. I say again this industry will never be stable. The market wages of a professional pilot will always fluctuate and management can always control that.

I'm sorry if I offended you newarkblows. I know how touchy anything anti-ExpressJet can be for you.

 

No sir, I was not. But I fly with the guys everyday and have learned more than you have flying with the XJT lifers.

 

Originally Posted by DMEarc
From United mainliners: Don't listen to these idiots from Compass and XExpressJet that ask you to take one for the team. We didn't ask Delta, Airways or American guys to go out of business for the betterment of the profession. ExpressJets concessionary deal didn't garner this much criticism nor did Mesa's or Eagles. Nor did Mesaba's 07 agreement. It makes me sad to see the Trip7s, Slats and Fly782's of our profession take the positions they do. I do believe 782 was one of your own too...even more pathetic.

You have to do what is necessary to protect your jobs and your family's well-being. Not what some regional FO puke thinks you should do.

Professional piloting will survive, but these are the ebbs and flows of our chosen profession. You won't hurt it by voting in a crappy concessionary deal. We ruined that by relaxing scoped for huge raises that weren't sustainable in the market post-911.

Good luck to you all. Only you can choose your path.

And you other guys right seat captaining this decision; LAY OFF. You are in for a rude awakening.





GOOD POST

 

While I do agree with most of your post, I do have questions about the portion that is quoted. Mainly, if lets say that Delta had made major concessions in their contract with regard to scope and pay, how would that have affected your TA? Also, what is the rude awakening that we need to lookout for?

Since I could only speak for myself and not the whole company, I do not want to see anyone losing their jobs. A lot of those pilots have families that they need to support. All I could do then is to offer my help to those that might get furloughed because of this circumstance.

We all know that pilots or employees for that matter is not the cause of any company's demise. It usually surrounds bad decisions made by management. In any case, good luck to all at Pinnacle and as I have said before, please don't hesitate to pm me if I could help in getting your resume at our company.

 

I think what he was trying to say to those at other regionals who are being so critical to Pinnacle pilots, that your day is coming. Meaning Delta's steamrolling ways will continue..!

 

To all of you who keep reminding us that the future of Pinnacle is already known by Delta, regardless of how the results turn out tomorrow, do you really think us voting ourselves into the unemployment line is going to change things? If we vote no, you will not have our current contract to pattern bargain off of as "industry standard". Furthermore, as has been stated, even with this LOA to our contract, we are still not the least expensive small jet operator. Compass and Gojet are still less expensive than us. Compass, in particular will be for the foreseable future as long as DL is hiring. With that flow-through in particular, DL has a built in way to keep that pilot group from becoming "too senior" and to use it against everyone else. Gojet is cheaper than them, still. They are the carrier that we were asked to be cheaper than, and we managed to not go that far.

Because of the GROSS incompetence of our management, past and present, DL has had to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into keeping this company afloat. They only care about money (duh) and will want a return on their investment. That they will pull the funding and shut this place down in the event we vote no is not surprising nor does it have anything to do with retaliation from us "standing up" to them. Im quite sure Richard Anderson and co. see themselves as way above being in a ****ing match with this pilot group.

As far as us all being one big happy union...yes, there are many problems with our "national union" and its many "chapters" representing multiple pilot groups with conflicting priorities and dues revenue. That, however is not a battle that this pilot group is in any position to engage in on behalf of the rest of the industry. On that note, the union is not selling this LOA as "good". They have said very blantantly that it sucks. But the alternative for most is worse. We will all recieve a cash payment, adequate or not. Some will have the opportunity to go on to DL, and for others it buys time while we all look for other jobs, flying or otherwise. For those who get furloughed, they get a few months pay and benefits as well as an ATP if they dont already have one to again look for something better.

We are being screwed, everyone knows that. The yes vote buys time and keeps people employed longer to log more experience for a new employer. So to those of us who have to make this choice, if you truly dont like the TA and would rather be unemployed than except it, by all means, vote know. It's your right and I certainly understand. I, for one cannot afford to be unemployed and am not willing to fall on my sword for the perceived benefit of other pilot groups who stand to gain from our demise. If that makes me selfish, my apologies. We can revisit the topic, WHEN the gun gets pointed at your head.