Dear United Mainline,
04-09-2013 | 07:28 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
It's clear that the people who make these decisions are short sighted and do not consider the ripple effects of such policies.
I feel this could be straw that breaks the camels back for allot of people.
There comes a point where the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
I feel this could be straw that breaks the camels back for allot of people.
There comes a point where the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
04-09-2013 | 07:40 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
From: Jet Pilot
Or they know most will still pay to non-rev. By the way, isn't the use of the jumpseat/non-rev a privilege or are there entitlements written into your CBA's? Pardon my ignorance, but I have always lived in domicile and never had to deal with these issues - thankfully!
04-09-2013 | 07:48 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,867
Likes: 117
Thats how it is at AA/AE - a lot of commuters just go on other airlines because its free yet they have to pay to use AA or AE (unless forced to the JS).
04-09-2013 | 07:51 AM
#95
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
I don't know if you have compared the cost of living in places like ORD, EWR, IAD, DEN, and SFO with other places around the country. But if you do that it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to figure out why people would commute over living in base. My house payment will get me a decent one bedroom apartment in most of these places. Not to mention the constant opening and closing of bases. It just isn't affordable. I'd love to live in base if I was paid enough to live there, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. This will just add to the cost of this profession, and cause more people to decide to move to other professions for economical reasons, particularly FAs. Maybe when your A320 is flying around half empty because of a decrease in regional feed due to a lack of crews, you'll start to understand. If you think I'm kidding, go look around at flight schools around the country. This profession is rapidly becoming economically unsustainable for the average person and is probably already there. As much as I love this business, if I were starting right now there is no way I would do it because of the numbers. To quote Smisek's memo when you add up a huge student loan payment, a crashpad, and now as much as $320 a month in fees to commute to work it creates a gap, and there is not a reasonable model for recapture. When I was an FA, a policy like this likely would have driven me out of the business, it was that close of a break even operation for me financially. We are about to enter a very interesting time in this business where actions like this are driving potential employees away, and airlines will have to start competing for employees, rather than relying on having 10 or 15 applicants for every job. This will begin with the regionals at first, but will eventually work its way up to the mainlines as well.
If you've been hired at a regional in the past 10 years, you should do a quick search back into history and take a look at what it was like before that. Regionals are paying a SIGNING BONUS??? Man... back in the early 90's they wanted you to PAY THEM to come work for their crappy wages and work rules.
I have been saying for the past 2 decades that the increasing race to the bottom will eventually have an effect on the ability to fill the cockpit seats. So far it hasn't happened, but hopefully it will soon so that the working conditions in this business will turn around a bit.
I definitely am sorry that the costs of commuting are going up, and that once again Jeff is squeezing the employee turnip. But to come on here and threaten the United PILOTS (who had nothing to do with any of this) that you are going to deny them the jumpseat ON A ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK OVER FROM THEM is going to be met with little empathy.
04-09-2013 | 07:57 AM
#96
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
Of course, you should remember that these things work both ways. As I said, it matters not to me that I don't make it to work because a disgruntled RJ Captain doesn't want to take me. I've got a commuter policy in my contract. But deny me the jumpseat going HOME and it will be a different matter, especially since you are holding me responsible for something that Jeff did to you... not the United pilots. You have a LOOOONNNGGGG way to go to catch up to how much money that clown cost me. It's very easy for all of us to deny UAX pilots the jumpseat right back. You can go pay the $20 each leg in the back if you are lucky enough to get on (summer is coming). I hope you work for a regional with a union and a good commuter policy!
Now that I've written it... I would never do that. I don't take out my frustrations on poor management decisions on pilots. It's unprofessional.
04-09-2013 | 08:02 AM
#97
Banned
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
Also keep this in mind, I can't tell you how many times during the BK's I'd hear or read a mainline pilot say how their going to deny regional pilots the jumpseat, that'll teach em!!!!!! You know, because they're "taking their jobs". Or to a lesser degree, using the jumpseat as lecture pulpit to and tell the regional pilot how they are personally responsible for the plight of the mainline pilot's disposition. Been there, done that, lot's of times. Sitting on the JS, listening to the CA or FO drone on and on about how the scope they gave away is now screwing them and I'm personally responsible.
You know, the act of a completely ignorant, infantile, and unprofessional individual. Surprisingly, it's NOT just a trait of one segment of this career.
Just curious, you bid off the 76 or did you get displaced off?
04-09-2013 | 08:05 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Non-rev to Cancun on your weekend off is a privilege. Paying to commute to your new domicile, becuase your original domicile was closed by your company is not a privilege in my opinion.
04-09-2013 | 08:05 AM
#99
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
It's not my fault you voted in a crap contract that I had nothing to do with to allow the "practice jets" to steal your routes. Look we all made choices and in high school when you voted in that craptastic CBA that gave scope away I knew then it was bad. Oh but you got your pay increase at the expense of other pilots being furloughed. Don't come on here and give us your story of how you used to walk up hill in the snow both ways. I have to live in the mess your generation has put me in both in the airline world and outside of it. So thank you for this. Don't give me your sob story. I don't feel bad for you. I would never deny a jumpseat to anyone it should be a something we can use as a privilege for all the hard work each and everyone of us has put into this job along with the crap. The idea in mind in denying is that your okay with this when you shouldn't be. I'm so tired of ALPA and mainline pilots that just let crap go. "Well it doesn't affect me so why do I care" same attitude you guys have had for years. You have a a position in which your pilot group as a whole can put pressure on the company. More than all UX carriers can. Oh wait are we all nearly in the same super union that's supposed to be the best for us?
I'm not the one on here throwing the threats.
United Pilots are not here to fight your battles for you. You are not even employees of United Airlines. We are pretty full up fighting our OWN battles in case you didn't notice. What makes you think we are in a position to change this policy??????? That's YOUR MANAGEMENTS job. They negotiate the pass travel policy! Go talk to them! UAX flies more than 50% of our domestic passengers. I have no idea how many of you there are out there, but I wouldn't be surprised if you collectively outnumber us at this point. So how come YOU don't do anything about it?
Your recollection of the history of our contract is inaccurate, so I won't bother to go down that path with, but I find it ironic that in the same post you acknowledge that we were powerless against our management team to fix the inadequacies of our contract when it comes to pay, retirement, scope etc. but now think that miraculously we have some pull with management over fixing a travel policy gaff for employees of A DIFFERENT COMPANY.
04-09-2013 | 08:09 AM
#100
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
Look we all made choices and in high school when you voted in that craptastic CBA that gave scope away I knew then it was bad. Oh but you got your pay increase at the expense of other pilots being furloughed. Don't come on here and give us your story of how you used to walk up hill in the snow both ways. I have to live in the mess your generation has put me in both in the airline world and outside of it. So thank you for this. Don't give me your sob story.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
