Cost control. That's the incentive. A flat pay scale is cheaper for the airline. I just wonder what other forces are stopping airlines from considering this.

 

Exactly!
It is easy for the "Lucky" ones that had luck with timing in this industry and moved fast thru the regionals to the majors to point at the starting guys and tell them not to take the job if you do not like the pay. They won't help you change anything, they will just spit down and tell you to stop complaining if you are dumb enough to work for a pay you do not like.
But believe me, They did it themselves, they took the bad paying jobs too.... once upon a time....but back then before they destroyed for everyone coming behind the jobs did not pay as bad as today but they did not have to take it for long because they had LUCK.

Some claim that if you do not like the pay then you should do something else. If everybody would think like that and base their career on income we would see more hookers and drug dealers.

There are people that need more then just a pay check when they work. They need to love what they do and that does not mean that they do not have the right to be compensated according to the responsibility and demands that comes with the job and it does not mean that they have no right to complain about it after they taken the job.

One thing that will surprised many is that it is not always management that destroyed the entry level salary. No it is the Unions and the senior pilots that every time a pay scale has to be negotiated make sure the senior guys get first and the most junior well....ends under the buss. Stop blaming management only. Greed is the problem.

In many companies Management tells the union what they can afford to pay for a two man flight crew and it is up to the union to divide that sum between the CP and the FO.

Who do you think get the most? and who do you think that the CPs in the union do not give a **** about? and who do you think the CPs tells to not worry that you will upgrade and benefit from it eventually?

Greed and selfish attitude among the pilot ranks is what destroyed the pay scales more than management. Today an FO has to have an ATP and 1500 hours and that was the min requirement for Captains back in time, the FO has to have a PIC rating in type, the FO has to check the paper work, sign for the weight and balance and everything else. If something goes wrong the FO is as ****ed as the Captain.

There are at the regional thousand of pilots that are stuck as FOs (because of the darn 65 year rule and the economy) and that had and have more experience than many of the Captains they fly with. There are thousand pilots that been furlough at least once and are stuck as FOs and we are still talking about paying the Captain 90K and the FO just 50K?

Why the huge difference? Because the CP signs that the airplane is airworthy? Believe me if it is not the FO will be ****ed as much as the captain. Why then? Because the Captain works more?, Believe me in 80% of the time that is not the case. Then Why? Because the Captain knows more and has more experience? Not always and at the regionals there is only so much experience you can get if you are 5-8 years in the same equipment, then what?

Yes because he is the Captain and the upgrade is based on seniority and that is based on timing and luck in your career not on quality, knowledge or integrity and the senior pilots dominates the union that divide the money the company is willing to pay for a crew, nothing else. My opinion after 18 years in the business, 1 bankrupcy and 2 furloughs? The FO should at least have 70% of the Captains pay when they both top out as in most reputable airlines.

Anything else is just unfair and greed and the huge difference is only seen at the Regional level. Yes I am weird, I am senior guy that cares about the guy at the bottom, some would call me traitor.

 

A picture is worth a thousand words:

 

Does anybody know what a commuter pilot was earning, on average, in the mid-90s? What about before then?

The Bureau of Labor and Statistics has an online CPI (Consumer Price Index) calculator which allows you to determine the purchasing power of the dollar in previous years compared to the current dollar. Click Here.

You may note that a pilot making $30,000 in 1990 had the equivalent purchase power of a pilot making $56,606.58 in 2013.

A pilot making $15,000 (a number that one of the Republic FOs on this forum claimed his first year salary to be) in 1990 had the equivalent purchase power of a pilot making $26,803.29 in 2013.

In short, you regional pilots are earning obscenely low salaries. While other professions have adjusted with inflation throughout the decades, pilot salaries have arguably (pending accurate salary information as requested above) maintained the same "face value" while losing real value.

That same 2013 pilot making $15,000 would have made only $8,394.49 in 1990.

Something worth remembering at your next salary negotiation.

 

I was hired @ XJ in the mid 90's. Made $22K my 1st year doing reserve/buildup.

 

Yes but they don't have mr Barrack Hussein Obama as their president so I guess they lose?

 

Thank you Delta1067.

So, according to the CPI, $22,000 in 1995 is equivalent to $33,713.99 in 2013. The difference is roughly $1,000 per month in equivalent purchase power. In other terms, a significant difference in QOL.

In 1995, a new hire at XJ was likely flying the nineteen seat SW4 or thirty-seven seat DHC-8. In 2013, a new hire at 9E (XJ) is flying either the fifty seat CRJ-200 or the roughly seventy seat CRJ-900. A new hire at 9E is currently making a base annual salary of $22,500.

$22,500 in 2013 is equivalent to $14,682.33 in 1995. A loss of $7,817.67 based on inflation. Assuming the pilot in 1995 was assigned the SW4 he was making an assumed $1.16 per flight hour, per seat. A 2013 CRJ-200 new hire at 9E is making $0.44 per flight hour, per seat. A 2013 CRJ-900 new hire at 9E is making $0.31 per flight hour, per seat.

If a 2013 CRJ-900 new hire at 9E was making $1.16 per flight hour, per seat he would be making $81,200 in 2013 dollars.

In eighteen years, not only did regional pilots lose out due to inflation, but they lost 73.3% of their salary versus seat-hour value. (CRJ-900)

 

Your comparision is a bit skewed. We had buildup lines and it was very easy to credit 100-115 a month. If you want to compare base guarantee my hourly was $16.55 X 75 X 12 = $14,895

 

Well, I work abroad, and I can tell you the type of questions at an upgrade interview at a large international bizjet operator... I think they'll surprise you:

1) You're flying a NAT track and you're approaching 30W. Suddenly you see low oil pressure on your #2 engine. Take me through the scenario, your actions, walk me through the checklists, and tell me how would you handle this. (We take MNPS recurrent every year... should be a no-brainer).

2) You're flying over Russia, and you have a problem requiring a divert. What are some of your considerations? (We fly there often as well... think along the lines of non-WGS-84 compliance and meters QFE, etc... stuff that's covered in recurrent).

3) You have a FO who insists he fly the first sector to a special airport. How do you handle that?

4) A junior FA has a disagreement with the purser that she feels she cannot resolve and asks you to intervene. How do you handle this situation?

5) You have a 40 minute flight and you're tankering fuel for a round trip (you're given a figure and flight plans). You have a VIP onboard enroute to a major world event. On departure, your landing gear won't retract. Take me through this scenario. Explain your decisions.

Basically, you're graded on your decision-making, application of CRM, and knowledge of the manuals you operate under.

Some people just can't make a tough decision if it's not laid out in black and white. Nobody is forcing you to brown nose, or play golf with CP, or anything of the sort.

Our last FO that upgraded was about as far from brown-noser as you can get. He just knew his stuff, showed up prepared, had a pleasant demeanor. Now he's a captain.

Good ol boy clubs, particularly at larger airlines, are actually highly impractical due to sheer size.

But what do I know... after all aren't we all ENTITLED to that left seat?

 

Check and check. This looks better:

$14,895 in 1995 = $22,825.90 in 2013

A new hire et 9E is $22/hr. 22x75x12 = $19,800

Man, that looks better. I knew there was some fuzzy math hiding in there.