Life in the Real World
12-01-2006 | 07:18 AM
#11
Bored
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
From: Grumman Torture Device (weekends only)
Two points:
One, there is overcapacity in the regional market, so the bidding for business is competitive between many companies. Although it would suck for those pilots, it would do the regional industry overall good if some companies closed shop rather than continue to push their workforce and rules to scrape by.
Second, in the case of the newest RFP's, the companies are given the planes to fly, so the cost to operate is directly related to wages/benefits, as that is really the only variable that a company can control (assuming operational capability is similar).
As a pilot group, we would all like to see wages improve to a livable level, and the original COMAIR contract was a step in the right direction, but it is plainly obvious that they lost the business from Delta because the pilot's wouldn't take the pay cut (to a non-negotiable "magic number" that I'm sure was handed down by Delta -- see the news from yesterday)... and this hurts the group as a whole.
At some point...ALPA needs to step up and lay out a plan for the "standard" regional work package - if the group pulls together, across all the regionals, something may improve. But - when you've got CFI's with SJS who are just happy to be there, normally due to a lack of knowledge on their part..... I think to be affective, ALPA needs to be aggressive in recruiting - go to the schoolhouses and intervene with these guys before they jump and be an active part of the transition process.
Rant off, and making room on the soapbox for someone else....
Spongebob
One, there is overcapacity in the regional market, so the bidding for business is competitive between many companies. Although it would suck for those pilots, it would do the regional industry overall good if some companies closed shop rather than continue to push their workforce and rules to scrape by.
Second, in the case of the newest RFP's, the companies are given the planes to fly, so the cost to operate is directly related to wages/benefits, as that is really the only variable that a company can control (assuming operational capability is similar).
As a pilot group, we would all like to see wages improve to a livable level, and the original COMAIR contract was a step in the right direction, but it is plainly obvious that they lost the business from Delta because the pilot's wouldn't take the pay cut (to a non-negotiable "magic number" that I'm sure was handed down by Delta -- see the news from yesterday)... and this hurts the group as a whole.
At some point...ALPA needs to step up and lay out a plan for the "standard" regional work package - if the group pulls together, across all the regionals, something may improve. But - when you've got CFI's with SJS who are just happy to be there, normally due to a lack of knowledge on their part..... I think to be affective, ALPA needs to be aggressive in recruiting - go to the schoolhouses and intervene with these guys before they jump and be an active part of the transition process.
Rant off, and making room on the soapbox for someone else....
Spongebob
12-01-2006 | 07:20 AM
#12
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 0
From: A-320
Well I did a search and found you work for Mesa, based in MCO. I liked the "Saving Pilot Ryan" video the MEC put together, and I hope you guys kick ass on the contract next year, I really do. If Mesa loses flying in the Delta RFP, it'll not be a consequence of high cost, it'll be a consequence of operational reliability (or lack thereof). That definately ain't the fault of the crews...
I'll never be happy for anybody being put out of work, but a few would find sweet justice in seeing Mesa lose some flying after taking so much from other carriers.
If you vote to accept continued low wages & poor work rules in order for Mesa to continue growing, then that will firmly make you part of the problem and not part of the solution...and that is directly tied to "free market economics".
I'll never be happy for anybody being put out of work, but a few would find sweet justice in seeing Mesa lose some flying after taking so much from other carriers.
If you vote to accept continued low wages & poor work rules in order for Mesa to continue growing, then that will firmly make you part of the problem and not part of the solution...and that is directly tied to "free market economics".
12-01-2006 | 03:32 PM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,144
Likes: 801
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
You haven't been in this business long enough to talk. Most SKW pilots just want to live in the west. A few new-hires under 2000 hours have SJS, but the majority are from other airlines and have shiny-money syndrome.
12-01-2006 | 03:34 PM
#15
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,144
Likes: 801
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
.
At some point...ALPA needs to step up and lay out a plan for the "standard" regional work package - if the group pulls together, across all the regionals, something may improve. But - when you've got CFI's with SJS who are just happy to be there, normally due to a lack of knowledge on their part..... I think to be affective, ALPA needs to be aggressive in recruiting - go to the schoolhouses and intervene with these guys before they jump and be an active part of the transition process.
Rant off, and making room on the soapbox for someone else....
Spongebob
At some point...ALPA needs to step up and lay out a plan for the "standard" regional work package - if the group pulls together, across all the regionals, something may improve. But - when you've got CFI's with SJS who are just happy to be there, normally due to a lack of knowledge on their part..... I think to be affective, ALPA needs to be aggressive in recruiting - go to the schoolhouses and intervene with these guys before they jump and be an active part of the transition process.
Rant off, and making room on the soapbox for someone else....
Spongebob
12-01-2006 | 03:57 PM
#16
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,144
Likes: 801
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
There have been posts lately about "poor Comair", SkyWest growing "at Comair's expense" and similar statements. Is this not how things work in the real world, people? You win some, you lose some and you keep fighting and move on. Why should anyone expect that Comair will keep all the flying they have and Skywest shouldn't compete for additional business? It should be the goal of any business to grow. If Comair can't compete, well then that's just too bad for them. If Skywest can compete and gain additional business, why shouldn't they? Heck, even MESA (perish the thought) should grow if they can compete and win new business. We live in a free market economy and this is how it works.
Where am I going wrong with my thinking on this?
Where am I going wrong with my thinking on this?
Unfortunately management had figured out that they don't have to actually make good on the the promise...they take your work up front and when the time comes to pony up, they either reduce your payscale in Ch.11 (maninline) or liquidate your jobs and sell them off to the youngest (lowest) bidder in the case of regioanls. The low bidder will always be the company that has the largest number of super-junior pilots.
Comair has simply reached the natural termination point in the life cycle of a regional pilot group. They are older, wiser, and have families and bills so they require more compensation...the longevity scale would have provided that in the past, put today it only provides the means of their demise.
But don't worry, you will get your turn in the barrel when you are an eight year captain with 2-3 little kids...
Actually you work for mesa, right? I think mesa is about to learn all about market forces as they relate not to labor cost, but to product quality.
Good luck with that...
12-02-2006 | 01:22 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: ERJ-145 FO
There is a fundamental problem here...it is not "free market" forces in action, it is our longevity pay scale in action. The longevity scale is basically an archaic mechanism to get pilots to work for peanuts today in exchange for a payoff down the road.
Unfortunately management had figured out that they don't have to actually make good on the the promise...they take your work up front and when the time comes to pony up, they either reduce your payscale in Ch.11 (maninline) or liquidate your jobs and sell them off to the youngest (lowest) bidder in the case of regioanls. The low bidder will always be the company that has the largest number of super-junior pilots.
Comair has simply reached the natural termination point in the life cycle of a regional pilot group. They are older, wiser, and have families and bills so they require more compensation...the longevity scale would have provided that in the past, put today it only provides the means of their demise.
But don't worry, you will get your turn in the barrel when you are an eight year captain with 2-3 little kids...
Actually you work for mesa, right? I think mesa is about to learn all about market forces as they relate not to labor cost, but to product quality. Good luck with that...
Unfortunately management had figured out that they don't have to actually make good on the the promise...they take your work up front and when the time comes to pony up, they either reduce your payscale in Ch.11 (maninline) or liquidate your jobs and sell them off to the youngest (lowest) bidder in the case of regioanls. The low bidder will always be the company that has the largest number of super-junior pilots.
Comair has simply reached the natural termination point in the life cycle of a regional pilot group. They are older, wiser, and have families and bills so they require more compensation...the longevity scale would have provided that in the past, put today it only provides the means of their demise.
But don't worry, you will get your turn in the barrel when you are an eight year captain with 2-3 little kids...
Actually you work for mesa, right? I think mesa is about to learn all about market forces as they relate not to labor cost, but to product quality.
Good luck with that...
12-02-2006 | 07:10 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 0
From: SkyWest Capt.
Plus, jump at the chance to fly larger equipment? Yes they jump once they get 1000/100 and pass up a XJT, Eagle, Mesa, Piedmont, Colgan and many other interviews at 600/100. If you wait till your at a 1000TT your not jumping at anything. You're jumping at 500-800TT. And don't say you don't get hired at XJT at 600/100, I have 7 friends that all got hire at XJT under 800 and most just over 600.
Last edited by JetJock16; 12-02-2006 at 07:19 PM.
12-02-2006 | 07:15 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 0
From: SkyWest Capt.
Well I did a search and found you work for Mesa, based in MCO. I liked the "Saving Pilot Ryan" video the MEC put together, and I hope you guys kick ass on the contract next year, I really do. If Mesa loses flying in the Delta RFP, it'll not be a consequence of high cost, it'll be a consequence of operational reliability (or lack thereof). That definately ain't the fault of the crews...
I'll never be happy for anybody being put out of work, but a few would find sweet justice in seeing Mesa lose some flying after taking so much from other carriers.
If you vote to accept continued low wages & poor work rules in order for Mesa to continue growing, then that will firmly make you part of the problem and not part of the solution...and that is directly tied to "free market economics".
I'll never be happy for anybody being put out of work, but a few would find sweet justice in seeing Mesa lose some flying after taking so much from other carriers.
If you vote to accept continued low wages & poor work rules in order for Mesa to continue growing, then that will firmly make you part of the problem and not part of the solution...and that is directly tied to "free market economics".
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