flynavyj

As I've done a bunch reading on here recently I've heard a lot about concessions to secure more flying. I know it's just more typical "You're paid to much" but it really seems odd considering the gathering clouds on finding additional pilots.

1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.

2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.

3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.

So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.

When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?

I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?

snippercr

Remember, the "ATP" rule lost a LOT of its teeth with the "Restricted ATP" proviso. No longer is it 1500TT/500XC/etc but now it can be down to 1250, 1000 or even 750 for military folk. Indeed, the days of 250 hour wet commercial certificates walking into the front of a 76 seater jet are over, but no longer to the extent people might have thought or hoped.

Age 65 but it still will be a little bit before we really start feeling the effects of that.

Regional feed is probably shrinking due to the removal of 50 seat flying. Instead of 3 or 4 trips in a CRJ-200/ERJ145, it is now probably 1 or 2 in a E175/CRJ900. This means that the regionals are shrinking.

What I am getting at is NOT "RJ Pilot" doom and gloom (if you know the tool, you know who I am talking about) - but we are seeing both positive and negative signs of movement resulting in stagnation or even reversal. What I see possible is that the management folks see this and are (hopefully) scared. They want to secure as many concessions and leverage as possible before they lose the advantage they have had.

Or I could have absolutely NO idea what I am talking about and should just go back to flying the plane... which is quite possible

Boomer

Pinnacle getting additional flying? I didn't know that.

USMCFLYR

No they are not.
The pay, working conditions, QOL, and union on property seemed to be much better.

flynavyj

LoL...Yes, i'd agree. Normally "illegal work actions" are brought up, and the reference made is the controller strike in the early 1980's, but sadly that doesn't really seem to be a valid point. Least not in my half-shut eyes.

Noseeums

Pinnacle is shrinking from 197 to 81 aircraft.

There's no shortage of pilots at any level. If there were the market would adjust and pay more. Let's not pretend unions have any leverage.

buddies8

Well that is good, then we would be properly staffed. Take them all, all in one day would be fine with me. Then let aa get it where the sun dont shine.

eaglefly

There IS a shortage at the regional new-hire level and the numbers achieved aren't anywhere near those requested. Most regionals are getting 15-30% of the pilots they need. Now if regionals shrink by 60% like your above example, then there won't be a shortage for awhile, but once the legacies, LCC's and other next move carriers start hiring, even a 60% contraction will be impossible to staff.

Give it another 18-24 months.

MEMbrain

If fast food workers had the equivalent of the ERJ 170 series (ie: a grill top or deep fryer with jet engines underneath it's wings) they would be asking for concessions in order to cook on such an awesome piece of restaurant equipment.

block30

Not to be a jerk towards you, but we've heard that over, and over, and over. Somehow mgt slips the noose.