pete2800

You have to be a little more of a long-term thinker than that.



Getting a mainline job is hard. Why? Because there are many more applicants than there are positions. Why? Because there aren't many new positions. Why? Because most of the growth or new flying is at the regional level. Why? Because it's cheaper. Why? Because pilot groups continue to be willing to exchange pay for a quicker upgrade or more bidding power. Why? So they can "get their time and get out." Why? Because TPIC time is more competitive for mainline jobs. Why? Because getting a job at mainline is hard.



If most of us took the position of "I really don't care to have additional flying or bigger airplanes unless you give me a mainline ID badge," then perhaps there'd be more mainline ID badges to go around.

I could bid in the top 5 if I turned myself into a commuter and chose to be based in Anchorage. I'm more than willing to go be based in Anchorage, but first they'll have to change my badge from red to blue.

Mason32

Then if you have any more conferences, somebody should specifically ask if the CRJ's are going to PSA. Then ask how long the EMB's are scheduled to remain before the last is gone. Follow it up with whatthe company plans are for the RAH E175's when they can't staff them anymore. You could also call your union guys if there are no more conferences.


There is no need for concessions on your property. They aren't going to furlough, they will just let attrition shrink you as FO's leave for United and Delta, while CA's flow to AA.

They have already backed away from their threat to Comair you guys; so what are you afraid of now?

Have you bothered to look at the mainline hiring demand over the next few years, not including nationals like jetBlue, Spirit and Virgin?

seafeye

I think many people saw the last one as a mistake from our MEC. He lied straight up. Doubt it will happen again. But.....

I would gladly limit all pay for pilots to year 12. All the senior pilots that threw us under the bus... well karma is a...

pagey

What did they lie about? Serious question. Everything they said would happen, has, right? I'm not trying to be a richard.

Let me ask you this:

Would you give up the SAP and our critical pay language(even in its current, less effective state) in exchange for what we gave up? I'm pretty sure if giving away the SAP was the term for the acft and we accepted that deal no one on here would be talking about PSA the way they do(brownstreak) when in reality, especially for FOs, it is a bigger money maker for the pilots than the 2 dollars an hour we gave up going from a 6 year scale to a 4. Now the 10 or so dollar loss on the captain side going from 18 to 12 would be a little harder to recoup, but I think it is possible especially under the red/green version of the critical language. Even if you fall a couple bucks an hour short on average the QoL from the SAP for me is worth it.

So, what do you think?

Again I ask this because if the SAP was what we gave up no one would've even heard about it most likely because its just simply not as visible as the pay rate caps, but is a far more important part of our contract.

seafeye

I won't go into specifics here, i'm sure he did it to get this latest TA passed. It's atrocious, he knows it but doesn't care. He was out of his league for trying to negotiate with senior management. And this TA is proof. Could i do better? No. But i would hire someone good. Someone really good. The cost would have been far less than what we are dealing with now.


The SAP is the only reason i voted for the contract back in April. I don't believe that F/O pay rates should be in the $20's in 2014. Let alone in 2023.
I would not give back the SAP or critical pay. But my vote means nothing because people would gladly trade what's good in exchange for a carrot.
Growth is good for a short period. After the dust settles and the music stops people are going to have to be comfortable where they are. And being paid at 3-4 year pay for years isn't right.