Originally Posted by rickair7777

I have limited experience with ATP, but I have to agree that if you're looking for a package-deal kind of place it seems decent (compared to the other big schools). They don't try to send non-cfi's to airlines, and they do not appear to try to rip you off in training.

My preference would still be a good mom & pop kind of place at the local patch...if one is available. You can meet all kinds of people at a place like that.

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy

Good point STR8, I forgot to mention that you guys get bonuses when your students pass checkrides. But I still stand by my $6/hr assessment of your pay. You only broke down your pay by flight hour, saying you averaged 100 FLIGHT hours per month. What about time that wasn't flight time? My understanding was that you are required to work in the office when you aren't with students. You said that you regularly would FLY 8 hours a day, 7 days a week. By my math that is 56 hours/week. Assuming you did nothing but fly for every one of those hours (meaning your work day started when you got in the airplane and ended when you got out at the end of the day) and using your average of $1600/mo ($1200/mo salary + $400 in bonuses) then you were making $7.14/hr that week. Sorry I short changed you by saying it was $6/hr. Now, lets be realistic. If you were FLYING for 8 hours that day, I bet you did at least a little pre and post flight breifing, right? Lets say for every 2 hour lesson you did .5 pre and post that comes out to a 10 hour day. Do that for a week and you worked 70 hours. Divide that by your average of $400/wk and you come up with...$5.71/hr. So I guess the truth lies somewhere in between.

I know you don't actually get paid $6/hr. I arrived at that number by taking your salary ($1200/mo) and dividing it by a reasonable number of hours worked per week (50). I'm not talking straight flight time because all of us who instructed know that all your time with students is not just spent in the airplane. Allow me to recalculate with the bonuses factored in:
$1625/mo (the average of the numbers you provided) divided by 200 hours of work = $8.12. Wow...

So yes, it is sometimes nice to be salaried but when you calculate it out, it can also suck. My last CFI job paid $21.50/hr and I regularly billed 150 hours a month between flying (about 80hrs/mo), ground instruction and sim time. I'd take the flexibility over being "owned" by a salary any day. If I wanted to work my tail off I could make some real decent money. If I wanted to chill and take some time off, I could do that too and not have to worry about losing my job.

Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot

wrong wrong wrong. I know for a FACT that they do. You need to do more research SIR!!!!!

Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer

No I can't. I also see the big picture. ME time, good mx, lots of students, and a faster route to the 121 world.

-LAFF

Originally Posted by STR8NLVL

THEY don't pass anyone. The DE's do. And if you've flown with them to know that they are "unqualified," then your company passed them, too. And what does being female have to do with it anyway? All the weak pilots that I knew were guys. The females that I flew with at ATP were some of the strongest pilots in the lot.

Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot

First of all: I AM A FEMALE! I am saying this, not to generalize about CHICKS; rather to say that the PEOPLE that I am referring to are WOMEN. If they were men, I would indicate so. They, however, happend to be WOMEN. My point? The people who notice such things (i.e. race, gender, creed etc). are REALLY the ones who think that race, gender creed, etc are an issue.......I don't think that it is an issue. I only mention it to make a story. If they were BLUE, I would also say so....get it??????

Originally Posted by STR8NLVL

Now you're double talking. On the one hand, you figure total hours on the job to criticize ATP by figuring I earned $6/hr. Then you go on to state that you earned $21.50/hr for FLIGHT hours (and sim and ground). That's not a fair comparison. And again, each person's mileage will vary. But I'd have to say that most FBO jobs only pay for flight hours, and it's about a 50/50 split whether you get paid for ground time or not. The FBO I trained at didn't charge anything (and hence, didn't pay the CFI anything) for ground instruction. You have to admit, your job was the exception, not the rule.

Still, like I said, I'm certainly not claiming that ATP overpaid it's CFI's. But I knew what I was getting, made comparable wages to what my CFI buddies at FBO's made, and got much more time all ME. It's not a bad gig if you want to earn a ton of hours fast and move on.

Also, figure I was only doing ME instrument instruction with lots of sim training, too, which made my instrument skills/knowledge very sharp. Most of my FBO CFI friends spend 80-90% of their training teaching 40 year old mid-life crisis businessmen stalls in 172's, half of whom quit after soloing and 70% of whom never even complete training to be signed off and passed. I, on the other hand signed off over 80 people in three months with only 4 busts, earning a gold seal on my CFI certificate.

I just think its not a bad place at all to work if you're not planning on doing it there for a career.

Originally Posted by Slice

There's been alot of changes at 1K1 in the past few years(runway, FBO)...hope to get back and visit next year. A few Stearmans on the field now too!

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy

But I stand by my original statement. You guys at ATP get short changed and your more than happy to do it to get to that next level (the regionals). How is that any different from the guys who get short changed at places like Mesa or GoJets who are just looking for that fast track to the next level (majors)?

Originally Posted by bassslayer

So which is it? Obviously they made it through 121 training if the are requesting a jump seat on "your airplane", so that would make them "every bit as equal" and worthy of the jumpseat. But yet they are still an ATP grad. No ATP grads will jumpseat when you are captain remember? Are you going to ask every jump seater where they went to flight school? So no Gulfstreamers, ATPers, who else will the almighty deny a jump seat to? Get a life.