[QUOTE=bassslayer;93197]So which is it? Obviously they made it through 121 training if the are requesting a jump seat on "your airplane", so that would make them "every bit as equal" and worthy of the jumpseat. But yet they are still an ATP grad. No ATP grads will jumpseat when you are captain remember? Are you going to ask every jump seater where they went to flight school? So no Gulfstreamers, ATPers, who else will the almighty deny a jump seat to? Get a life.[/QUOTE]

wow. I guess that you are the righteous one and judge of all, right?

 

Oldschooler... I am a business owner so I am the boss. I've had my own business for 4 1/2 years.

You could look at going to Gulfstream/ATP/JET U just like going to college. I went to college, paid 100k for 4 years, got a job out of school doing software engineering but only made 40k. Sounds a lot like going to a flight school (again Gulfstream/ATP/etc...) by paying your 25k for training and time building, you get hired and make 20-25k. I don't see much difference.

As for some of the other posters, I think it's pathetic that you wouldn't let someone "jumpseat" on YOUR (last time I checked you don't own the airplane or pay the bills) airplane just because they went to a flight school that your not a big fan of. Just my observation.

 

I thought this sight was for pilots; not weekend warriors

 

HotMama,

Wow, somehow we "weekend warriors" aren't allowed on "your" boards to ask questions. What a joke.

 

AMEN! IMHO guys who pay to work are WORSE THAN SCABS!

They are so retarded they just don't understand they are screwing themselves (as well as the entire industry over). I know of more than one 135 operator that fired payed FOs to get pay-to-fly kids and put them in the right seat. VERY SAD! In fact, I was denied a right seat job some years ago on a kingair only 5 days before starting because some @sshole showed up paying $18,000 for 300 of right seat time.... he paid for the job I was about to get paid for. He had about a third of my time but it didn't matter...he just made the company $18k plus the savings in wages.

It's even more shocking to me that many complain about Mesa or Gojet pilots, but little is said about guys who pay to fly. Don't get me wrong, Mesa and Gojet guys ARE undercutting the industry and should be treated accordingly. However, those who go to places like gulfstream/Eaglejets/VPJ (any 135 that has a pay-to-fly) are far WORSE than any Gojet or Mesa pilot. At least the Mesa pilot didn't undercut or put out of a job anyone on their way "up" to a regional.

 

Of course you're allowed on the forum! Everyone's opinion is always valued (only exception is Skyhigh )

However, since you are not involved in the industry as a pilot, you may not fully understand the topic of discussion. As a result, you may end up looking like a moron.

 

I actually I believe it states that it is for "current and future airline pilots. Not trying to be a smart ass. I understand that you dont like it when others who dont seem as experienced jump in on a topic, but it would be good if you could respect us little guys .

 

There's a huge difference. In college you weren't taking the job of another person. What if you went to college, paid your $100k, and then upon graduation an outside firm offered to give you "experience" if you paid THEM $40k? Would you be happy with that setup? Would you be happy if you said no, but your former classmate said yes and cut the check?

Gulfstream, and companies like it, hurt our profession substantially more then they could ever help.

 

Trust me burg, you have a boss, they are called your clients.

 

That's the most uneducated and ridiculous statement I've ever read!

Just because you might have flown with someone who came from there and was weak (and I'm not sure you have as your allusion to "gals" leads me to believe you're relying on heresay from other captains who probably have a problem with female pilots), that doesn't mean the flight school's students aren't held to the same standards.

I sat in the back of the sim and watched several guys do some TERRIBLE flight skill demonstrations both at interviews and during training. They were from various places. Just like a good pilot can have a bad day and bust a checkride, a weak pilot can have a good day and pass one. Furthermore, the DE's ATP uses are the same ones everyone else uses. And they're held to the same standards. The deal is, they can't bust you if you meet the minimums established by the PTS. And I've seen many the slid by those minimums that I wouldn't want flying my wife around in a passenger jet. I've also seen many many guys at ATP bust on checkrides. Anyone who insists that they're held to lower standards or that ATP is a "checkride factory" has no familiarization with the program.

Lastly, I find it disturbing that XJT hires pilots without a sim check. I've seen lots of pilots that could pass a technical/personal interview with flying colors but couldn't fly an airplane worth a hoot, barely getting their certificates, sometimes after multiple checkride busts, only to get on at XJT. So if you've seen some weak pilots from ATP there, its probably because they couldn't get on with any other carriers because the rest do sim rides in the interview and weeded them out.

I personally know several very weak pilots that barely made it through ATP training that ended up at XJT.