Buddies, you make a valid point but let me use part of you example and play devils advocate for a second. I do this simply to understand where you're coming from and your thoughts, not to argue.

Say that 'black swan' moment is around the corner and oil jumps or something else catastrophic happens. As it stands now, Eagle has no fleet guarantees of any nature and management seems hell bent to diversify feed and find lower cost options. If oil does skyrocket as you stated, wouldn't it be even more imperative for management to seek that lower cost option (i.e. say Mesa or anyone else for example).

At the same time, if such a black swan event happens, wouldn't you assume that hiring at all levels (especially majors) will be tempered to a certain extent if not done for, for the time being until retirements really ramp up more. Therefore, places will stagnate to a certain degree for a least a while, and in the meantime if that flying does shift (because Eagle currently has not fleet guarantee) it would only make it easier for another regional to staff...i.e. regional pilot shortage a moot point.

On the other hand, if Eagle DID have a fleet plan of minimum 170 frames, and oil shot the roof (or any other event), wouldn't it be more advantageous to have that guarantee and ride it out until hiring would resume. At least in that scenario, regardless of costs of oil, labor, aircraft, etc, Eagle would be sheltered unlike if it did not have any sort of fleet plan. In that case management would have even more incentive to shift flying due to costs and aircraft inefficiency, and staffing would no longer be an issue due to decrease in hiring at the majors because of the oil costs and lower yields, which would inevitably result in flight reductions.

I could be totally wrong but maybe there's food for thought.

Why would you rather hang yourself than work for Eagle? I assumed Eagle had captains knocking out 6 figures. How is it easier to quit and change professions than to vote to raise this one? I know King Air and light jet captains making 30-40K, sure they don’t work as much, but it’s still a full time commitment and not easy to raise kids on. I feel like the reason the movement is slow is because once you make captain it is difficult to move vertically somewhere else. I don’t think 1500+- captains at Eagle are hanging around for the pension, it because it’s difficult to achieve their salary elsewhere. If you can make more than captain pay elsewhere than you should start today; just because your career expectations have been beaten down doesn’t mean you’re still not in the best position to be in. You will be a captain or at mainline in five years regardless of this vote. I feel like you want a change so bad in your career that, you may be duped into believing this will alter the course.
Lastly, your MEC voted no to last year’s deal. Those actions directly improved the deal you have now. They do have your interest, and think the next deal will be even better than this one or the one previous. How would you feel after knowing this deal, if they would have said well we did the math and it won’t hurt us, so will take your first offer of concessions after bk, while making money. Mind you it was much closer to the pinnacle vote and before the xjet vote, and they still had reason enough to know the next deal would be better. You would have never gotten what you claim to be happy with now.

You have valid points. My personal priorities have pay ranked very low, my wife works and combined we make about 60k a year which more than pays all of our bills and allows us to save for retirement. In my eyes the regionals are not a career option even if the pay was 200k a year. I want better qol and more time off and with the current type of flying most regionals do that is impossible.

Everyone's priorities are different and I respect that. I am at peace whichever way this thing plays out.

I agree the MEC made good decisions up to this point, I thought the company had more to offer after the last "no" vote. From my gambling perspective this offer is the last best one, I'm not worried eagle will shut down, it won't. However, it will shrink which will adversely affect my career. I've got 5 years left to make a major or bust, so this agreement works well enough for me.

What about the language in the TA that basically says the company doesn't have to fulfil its obligations pending such events "including, but not limited to..." Bam, fleet guarantee out the window. Pay scales stick around.

I'm not familiar with what you're saying, I didn't read the entire TA so you may very well be correct.

But from what I did read the only thing that could be construed as vague and ambiguous in that regards was in Paragraph G of the Enhanced Flow Rights LOA, which talks about aircraft deliveries as it pertains to the Flow LOA. Take a look at it and you will see what I mean.

Aside from wild speculation of oil spikes, wars, and mass catastrophes, it seems quite unambiguous about the fleet and flow. We can sit here all days and say what if about any black swan event but that seems futile. And as I pointed out in my previous post, if in fact the fleet guarantee is firm, if such an event happened, you may be happy you had that minimum frames language.

In any case, I'm quite indifferent about the outcome. I'm just throwing things out there for thought and am not trying to argue with you or others because I can definitely understand where you're coming from and see your point of view.

I really am sympathetic to your story.
Eagle will shrink anyway; when you add planes that are 50% larger you will either have 50% growth in seat sales or shrink the fleet and thus pilots. With that said bigger ships equals lees frequency, less turns and possibly better schedules. If you fight for your Qol you will have a better Qol it didn’t magically happen at the majors they fought for it, you seem to put all your stock in the winning lottery ticket. If Eagle can get off its heels of concessions than you can position yourself for more days off per month higher vacation accrual or more long call reserves spots, even if pay is not your priority. There is no bust in 5 years. 5 years from now you will be 5 years older still need to provide for your family be further down the same road, and it will be even harder to switch professions. There is no magical opportunity; if you want a better life you must build a better life. The company is not forcing concessions they are offering them, the pilots choose what they live with.


If the company wants pay caps why can’t they give you a seniority number now? Then you could work under you cap not costing them a dime extra until you can hold the 777 if you wanted to. If they want to create flow for new hires they will. They do not need permission to hire their own employees so why should you buy a “guarantee”.

That letter looks like it was written by someone in management and just signed by Matt. What's his DOH?

A fleet guarantee only works if everything is okay. If something catastrophic would happen again, force majeure or BK would be invoked and the fleet guarantee would be DOA. That I can guarantee

Voting NO here.

1. I want to see what the company will do.
2. Maybe I can retire early.
3. Don't want to be associated in any form with PSA pilots.

That may be so, but the same would apply to any contract with any language. It goes both ways.

If such an event would happen with the current contract, what prohibits them from taking us back into BK. They could then do as they please, renegotiate and file a 1013. Regardless of the profits being shown today by airlines, they could evaporate tomorrow if any catastrophic event happens and back into bankruptcy they go.

In my opinion the whole notion of 'what if this' and 'what if that' is moot. It makes no difference and any decision making should be made on the current facts and the TA in itself, without trying to predict WWIII or oil spikes. The whole game changes then with this contract or that.

Vote no, vote yes, I don't really care. But don't try to predict the best or worse possible scenario because it usually is never one or another.