HeavyDriver

Now that made me laugh...

ZapBrannigan

You had me until right here. Because a PIC has never been kept out of trouble by a sharp SIC.

rickair7777

Hmm. Maybe my intent didn't come across. Odds are higher that a PIC will have to make vital decisions. Odds are lower that a CA will "go along" with an SIC making a bad call...they usually tend to speak up

Karma

False. While this is true MOST of the time and always at legacy there are some lower tier majors that prefer no PIC so you are less likely to leave for a legacy later on.

lolwut

Ok so, PIC is better than no PIC unless you want to be a slave to a less than desirable airline because you don't have the qualifications for a better airline.

ShyGuy

Weren't you a slave for a less than desirable regional airline that got you the PIC time to move onto your desirable airline?

CarolinaAngler

Or an SIC may have kept himself and bonehead captain out of trouble. FO's have the advantage of observing different command traits. I'd almost see this as an advantage, but I doubt the majors do.

John Carr

I'd agree with that. However, that skill gets more finely honed they become PIC and get to exercise their OWN command traits based on their personal experience. THEY are making the decisions, etc.......

Sort of agree. But that really wouldn't come out until an ACTUAL interview happens. And said FO gets asked a TMMAT time question and handles it superbly. But as far as apps screening goes, it's as discussed. For RIGHT HERE, and RIGHT NOW, the more boxes checked off, the better. As far as flight experience goes.

It always cracked me up when an FO that was on the verge of upgrade would say "you don't need PIC to get hired ya know".

Again, that's a true statement, we've covered that territory. But the question that runs through my brain is "yeah, so what are you STILL going here?". Couple that with these pilots were again, just short of upgrade. Meaning senior, have good schedules, etc. And the thought of going through the training event, going BACK on reserve after being a line holder for 7+ years, commuting, etc, they're looking for a way to rationalize NOT upgrading.

And I KNOW I'll get flamed for this, or it'll turn into standard thread derail. But the FO's/SICs/co-pilots that have that mentality and haven't held some kind of credible leadership role elsewhere just simply DO KNOW WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW.

rickair7777

Sure it's an advantage, it's part of the learning process. But most CA's had that experience too, before they became CA's.

John Carr

And to add to this, the pilot with the additional experience went through a further learning curve. IOW, actually put into practice their own leadership/decision making skill. Each step above (like LCA) adds a new layer to the learning curve. As opposed to sitting around with the "if I was CA, I'd do it this way.....", or "when I'm CA........"

It's intersting to watch the various personalities and styles. Fly with an FO. Sharp dude, but may be laid back. Nothing bothers him, relaxed, almost a little too much. Probably because he's bored/burned out from being an FO for a long time.

Then upgrades and starts building the rep of being a micro managing a-hole to fly with. Amazing how the personality can shift/alter when they realize it's them signing the paperwork now, and are flying with guys that ARE JUST LIKE THEY USED TO BE. Again, they didn't know what they didn't know.

Doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen.